When I look at a lot of videos of people racing F18s, it appears that the skipper hands the mainsheet over to the crew, so they can use both hands to work the mainsheet while the skipper holds the boat on course. An old sailor friend of mine says i must not be looking at the videos right and there is absolutely no reason why you should ever need two hands to sheet in. I pointed out that from my own limited experience, when we really get going along, I have to drop the tiller extension and use both hands if i want to sheet in anymore to go faster. He says that there must be something wrong with my mainsheet system.
My blocks are in almost new condition, the ratchet is on and there are no twists in the reeving. Am I looking at the videos wrong, or has this guy just never pushed his boat hard enough to have a need to use two hands?
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Vince
Houston, TX
1982 prindle 16 - became a parts boat shortly after purchase. "The Crackling Hullflyer"
1984 prindle 16 - current boat "Blew By You"
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double trap technique
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Posted: Sep 11, 2013 - 04:35 PM
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Posted: Sep 11, 2013 - 04:59 PM
I went from 7:1 to 8:1 to reduce effort on the main sheet. I don't race but have used two hands on the main sheet.
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Scott,
‘92 H18 w/SX wings
‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
‘96/‘01/‘14 Hobie Waves
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Posted: Sep 11, 2013 - 05:05 PM
He is confused.
I added an extra bale and blocks to my P16 so that I could sheet in with one hand while playing the waves in the ocean. That was way back when I had a mullet... I have long since lost the mullet but recently added the bale and blocks to my 18-2 for the same reason. It came in real handy racing offshore last month.
Can't explain the old guy's attitude- you may be right about his experience. (I am no spring chicken...)
The F18 crews in the vids look to be using two hands to help keep their balance while they sheet in. It's a long way back to the main blocks and the pull is behind and diagonal.
Edited by klozhald on Sep 12, 2013 - 10:27 AM.
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Sheet In!
Bob
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Prindle 18-2 #244 "Wakizashi"
Prindle 16 #3690 "Pegasus" Sold (sigh)
AZ Multihull Fleet 42 member
(Way) Past Commodore of Prindle Fleet 14
Arizona, USA
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Posted: Sep 11, 2013 - 05:28 PM
Yeah looking at some more videos, you can clearly see that it is the crew working the color coded mainsheet. He says he has never heard of this technique. Personally I like the idea. You can focus on the best course/wind direction and keep you eyes on it while they concentrate on keeping the sail perfectly trimmed. But what do I know Im just a rookie.
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Vince
Houston, TX
1982 prindle 16 - became a parts boat shortly after purchase. "The Crackling Hullflyer"
1984 prindle 16 - current boat "Blew By You"
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Posted: Sep 11, 2013 - 05:40 PM
I hand the mainsheet to my crew as soon as he is on the wire. It is a team effort and you are much faster with crew trimming and helm driving.
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Philip
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Posted: Sep 11, 2013 - 06:08 PM
I wondered why you call them "crew" but they show up late after you set up, just hang out cruising while you do five things at once, then leave early before you break down. "Passenger" seemed more fitting. Now it all makes sense! I haven't been working them hard enough.
Next time I'm going to try handing the main sheet over.
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Vince
Houston, TX
1982 prindle 16 - became a parts boat shortly after purchase. "The Crackling Hullflyer"
1984 prindle 16 - current boat "Blew By You"
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Posted: Sep 11, 2013 - 09:02 PM
What is this 'crew' thing you speak of? I usually call them poorly placed ballast who sit on my sheets.
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Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Posted: Sep 12, 2013 - 09:51 AM
Years ago I was surprised to see most serious racing teams have the skipper steer and the crew handle all the sheets.
I was hesitant to try this but I raced with a VERY experienced sailor and he insisted on it.
I realized it is impossible is to focus 100% on steering while also worrying about my sail settings (or anything else) and by splitting these jobs the results are much better ... -
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Posted: Sep 12, 2013 - 05:55 PM
Also, as the purchase increases with bigger, more powerful rigs, more line needs to be released and hauled back in for the same amount of boom movement. Having experienced crew run the mainsheet does indeed allow the skipper to focus on driving. On the ARC22 the crew runs the traveller from the wire, with the skipper holding the mainsheet for emergency dumps only. Very controllable, often permitting the skipper to drive a very straight course, power being easily adjusted in the puffs.
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Posted: Sep 13, 2013 - 06:23 PM
Even on the little F16, When I am skippering, I always hand off the mainsheet, even in light air...if the crew is good he can keep power in the sails while all you do is steer the course!
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Tyler holmes
Panama city, FL
Boat whore
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Posted: Sep 13, 2013 - 07:42 PM
OK guys, on monohulls crew is ballast or called "rail meat". BTW: Never call a female crew "rail meat" (don't ask me how I know).
In my Hobie 18 when racing or even cruising, whenever possible I hand the mainsheet off to the crew. Especially if they know how to trim a sail. -
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Posted: Sep 13, 2013 - 08:26 PM
Calling them ballast usually doesn't go well either, been there.
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Scott,
‘92 H18 w/SX wings
‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
‘96/‘01/‘14 Hobie Waves
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Posted: Sep 13, 2013 - 08:57 PM
I think you all are doing a lot better than I am. Out of the two times I had women on board, I didn't call them anything and one of them will never go sailing again, the other won't even go on a canoe. True story.
Edited by vinnyvincent on Sep 13, 2013 - 09:16 PM.
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Vince
Houston, TX
1982 prindle 16 - became a parts boat shortly after purchase. "The Crackling Hullflyer"
1984 prindle 16 - current boat "Blew By You"
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Posted: Sep 14, 2013 - 05:32 AM
As a fairly new F18 sailor (started with an H18), I'm slowly transitioning to crew sheeting when the breeze is up. Hard to break my old habits, but I'm convinced its better.
Basically it comes down to this- In a strong breeze, if the skipper is running the main, it often results in feathering (pinching) to control heal. Its really tough for the skipper to continuously adjust the main and steer a straight course at the same time. Handing off to the crew allows the crew to manage the heal and the result is the skipper can foot just a bit (or at least not pinch) which is much faster.
In light stuff, I have the crew forward on the windward hull, so I sheet and steer, but its a lot more manageable in these conditions.
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Jeff R
'88 H18 "Jolly Mon"
'10 C2 USA1193
NE IN / SE MI
cramsailing.com
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Posted: Sep 15, 2013 - 08:19 PM
Really? I'm pretty new to this but I've never heard of it. Do the real racers actually hand off the main sheet to the crew? I kind of like the idea of being able to concentrate fully on the helm - it does seem like it could work, at least with regular experienced crew. More info please!
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Posted: Sep 16, 2013 - 05:40 AM
Yes - 'tis true. It makes the most sense on a boat with a self-tacking jib, but I can see it being used in other cases as the jib is often set and forget on upwind beats.
Here's a video you can check http://player.vimeo.com/video/60216954 from the Catacup last spring (one of my bucket list regattas) At about 1:29 you can see a handoff. In nearly (but not all) the upwind sailing shots, you can see the crew with the main sheet. The skipper takes the main sheet downwind as the crew has their hands full with the spinnaker.
I was able to do it yesterday on a Tiger with a fairly new crew in 12-13kts of wind. Worked pretty well.
Basic process is this: Get a good upwind angle with some pressure in the main and cleat off the main. Crew should be going out on the wire as you're doing this. Pass the crew the sheet between the skipper trap and the side stay. Crew cranks down on the main while the skipper goes out on the wire. Crew adjusts main to taste (A wise man told me to sheet half as much twice as often - ie many quick small adjustments are better than slow big ones). In our setup, you cannot cleat the main while out on the trap. This is on purpose!
When its time to tack, I let the crew know and then slide in and take the main sheet. Crew comes in while I initiate the turn, sheet out on the main, and clear the tiller extension to the other side. As I complete the turn, I sheet in a medium amount on the new heading as the crew is going out on the wire. Then its time to hand off again and repeat above.
Its easier than it sounds, provided you're crew has some instinct for managing the main. It does take some time for the skipper and crew to get in sync with each other. I was definitely able to sail faster (less pinching) with this setup.
One last comment: being a crew on these boats in a breeze is really hard work and requires a lot of strength and stamina. For the Nacra17 Olympic boat, they made it mixed (ie male/female) on the boat. In nearly all cases the guy is the crew. (for this reason and better boat balance as well).
Edited by rehmbo on Sep 16, 2013 - 06:44 AM.
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Jeff R
'88 H18 "Jolly Mon"
'10 C2 USA1193
NE IN / SE MI
cramsailing.com
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