Okay, so me and a friend are getting geared up for a regatta next month. We both have our own boats, but will be crewing with eachother on either boat. We are trying to decide which boat to register.
Time will be adjusted using the portsmouth rating system, so our decision is basically coming down to the hull flying contest.
In your opinion, which is generally easier to fly a hull on; a hobie 18, or a prindle 16. He swears the weight of his H18 will make the prindle a better candidate, however My opinion is that we will have the little 16 fully loaded and his 18 would work better.
Also, just for fun: In your experience, what type of boat do you think is easiet(or hardest) to fly a hull on?
honestly we might just bring both boats and make our decision based on wind speed. If it's light air we'll register his 18, in heavy air we'll take the P16.
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Vince
Houston, TX
1982 prindle 16 - became a parts boat shortly after purchase. "The Crackling Hullflyer"
1984 prindle 16 - current boat "Blew By You"
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Easiest boat to fly a hull on
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Posted: Sep 15, 2013 - 12:30 PM
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Posted: Sep 15, 2013 - 01:09 PM
Prindle 16/Nacra 5.0 + any size Nacra Prindle and any boat with a similar hill design. Very stable and no pitchpole. -
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Posted: Sep 15, 2013 - 04:51 PM
With 2 people I will guess the H18 is easier to fly. Solo should be the P16. Just for fun: a Supercat 20 will lift a hull when solo really easy.
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Scott,
‘92 H18 w/SX wings
‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
‘96/‘01/‘14 Hobie Waves
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Posted: Sep 15, 2013 - 05:00 PM
A spin boat.
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Ron
Nacra F18
Reservoir Sailing Assn.
Brandon, Mississippi
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Posted: Sep 15, 2013 - 08:38 PM
An H16 is pretty easy to fly the hull on. My 5.2 likes to fly but is hard to keep steady in the air. My 5.7 (similar to the 5.0) is almost more stable with 1 hull out of the water. So again I vote the 5.7/5.0.
D.
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Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Posted: Sep 16, 2013 - 08:43 AM
the p16 will slow down the higher you fly the hull...its fastest when the windward hull is just out of the water. we clocked mine one day when we were flying hulls and when we were just out of the water we were moving @ 15kts and when we flew higher we dropped down to 9kts..pretty significant when racing. oh yeah, keep your bows down and try not to move around too much.
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bill harris
hattiesburg, mississippi
prindle 16- "BLUE RIBBON"
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Posted: Sep 16, 2013 - 10:03 AM
Lightweight boats rule for hull flying in the light stuff. The Stealth F16 is awesome solo, as is the Bimare F18HT, but the king is the ARC22, with it's 38' 5" mast, crew to leward, and windward traveller!
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Posted: Sep 16, 2013 - 11:14 AM
Hobie 18 would absolutely be the easier of the two. It has daggers and is bouyant enough and stable enough to send your crew leeward.
IMO the 5.8 and the I20 have gotta be towards the top of the 'easy to fly hull' list. The 5.8 in particular is almost ridiculous.
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Rob
OKC
Pile of Nacra parts..
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Posted: Sep 16, 2013 - 04:51 PM
The hull flying event is a separate contest after the race, So speed isn't really an issue. Right now I'm leaning more towards registering his hobie 18. I haven't quite gotten tacking down to a science on my P16 and it is so much easier with the H18 and it's daggerboards. that plus the point yurdle made about distributing the weight in order to facilitate more hullflying for the contest.
We shall see. Our plan is to bring both boats and have them set up the night before. based on the conditions the morning of the race, we will decide which boat to register. If it's really blowing out, prindle 16 all the way. Especially since his old mismatched hulled H18 is a on its last leg.
anything under 15mph and we will probably go with the h18
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Vince
Houston, TX
1982 prindle 16 - became a parts boat shortly after purchase. "The Crackling Hullflyer"
1984 prindle 16 - current boat "Blew By You"
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Posted: Sep 16, 2013 - 06:05 PM
AC72 is the easiest by far. Larry Ellison will have a couple available pretty soon. -
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Posted: Sep 18, 2013 - 04:47 PM
Well, I guess i'll play the contrarian here - Why the "P16 all the way if it's really blowing out"? A crewed H18 is a terrific option when the wind is up. Now, in low wind conditions, yes, i agree a weighted down (with crew and extra hull weight) H18 can perform badly against lighter P16s and H16s. No argument there. But in big winds?? Fuggabadoutit!! All else equal, a well-crewed H18 will walk down your crewed P16 in heavy winds/seas. Am I the only poster here who thinks Vinny has it exactly wrong? I'm not talking about the hull flying contest because either option would be a piece of cake in "15mph plus" (which to me translates to borderline whitecap sailing assuming your chosen crew doesn't weigh three or four bills), I'm talking about the races. -
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Posted: Sep 18, 2013 - 05:52 PM
You're pretty much the only poster who has commented on my racing preference, so you may not be the only one who thinks I have it wrong.
This is my first season sailing period and my first race. I was mainly asking for advice/going off the advice of my co-worker who apparently has alot of sailing experience and who owns the hobie 18.
I could very well have it exactly wrong, but it was his suggestion that we use the prindle in heavy air. It made a little bit of sense to me, because, if the crew weight is the same(360 lbs) and you have a boat that has a relatively conservative sail plan compared to most beach cats, including the H18, wouldn't it be slower in light winds?(loaded down boat, less sail area VS boat that was designed for that much weight with a lot more sail area) Would it not be a safer bet for a guy who is just getting into sailing with another guy who hasn't really sailed in years in very heavy wind, to take a slower boat out? I have no doubts that the H18 is a faster boat in pretty much all conditions, but thats not the point. the point is finishing the race without capsizing. Time will be adjusted because it is a mixed class race. Also keep in mind that his H18 is a heap of junk compared to my P16. his has mismatched hulls, is delaminated, the rigging is old, his lines are old, it leaks and mine doesn't...to make along story short its been sitting for years and has not been maintained.
you are also lumping the H16 into the same category as the P16. It seems to me that the H16 has a shit load of sail area in relation to the size and weight of the boat, which would make it perform better in light air than say, a P16 right?
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Vince
Houston, TX
1982 prindle 16 - became a parts boat shortly after purchase. "The Crackling Hullflyer"
1984 prindle 16 - current boat "Blew By You"
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Posted: Sep 18, 2013 - 06:26 PM
Hi Vinny, In my experience the H18 is not necessarily faster than a P16 (or a H16) in all conditions. In low wind conditions these lighter boats have proven faster sailing solo against me on my H18 "Mano-a Mano" (note: I'm 225#, so no featherweight). But in the higher wind conditions you're expecting, I would normally choose a good condition H18. It's much better in the chop/swells, an easier boat to tack, and can be trimmed down should things get crazy (furling jib and more on-the-water tuning/de-tuning options). But your friend's 18 sounds like a bit of a disaster with the leaky and delaminated hulls. Probably a good call going with the maintained P16. My worthless $.02. Enjoy! -
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Posted: Sep 18, 2013 - 06:37 PM
Why would you consider taking a boat in that condition? Who cares if the hulls are mismatched?
If it was in the same condition as your P16 then at 360 lbs, you should be on the H18.
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Ron
Nacra F18
Reservoir Sailing Assn.
Brandon, Mississippi
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Posted: Sep 19, 2013 - 08:47 AM
That actually makes sense because I have notice that I am sometimes able to keep up with some of the faster boats when it's more calm, but I wasn't sure if they were sand bagging or not. I love the H18, but the mast was too long to fit in my storage unit and I couldn't find any in my price range. I was looking into a hobie 16 and instead was sold on the p16 because because of the deal I found, plus it had more bouyancy and was lighter/easier to right solo.
[quote=nacra55]
I guess mismatched is fine, the only problem is he should have changed out both hulls because the old one is the one that leaks and is starting to delaminate. it doesn't seem too serious, a 1ft x 2ft spot on the deck is soft and makes a cracking sound and I doubt the boat would sink or anything on the short race we are doing, but it could definitely take on gallons of water over that period of time. we have taken it out a few times last year but never pushed it that hard. The whole boat in general is just worn out, though. Mine has all newer hardware, lines, rigging, sails, ect. A previous owner was an active racer and kept it in top shape. I'm constantly trying to convince him to spend a little time/money and get it back into good condition, but I think he just doesn't have the desire to sail like he used to.
Personally I would prefer to take mine out just so I can try racing it for the first time. He's had the opportunity to race his many times. He keeps pushing for us to use his, He's getting older and is probably thinking he'll be taking it out for one last race... but you guys are probably right about not taking it. cruising near the shore in the presence of other boats is probably okay, but I'm not so sure about taking it on a race.
Anyways, I really appreciate everyone's advice and We are probably going to use the P16. After reading everyones posts, it has come clear that he was suggesting we use his in light air because while he wants to use his boat for the nostalgia, he is concerned about the integrity of it....he didn't word it that way. He said it like he thought it would be faster in those conditions. He's a strange character sometimes.
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Vince
Houston, TX
1982 prindle 16 - became a parts boat shortly after purchase. "The Crackling Hullflyer"
1984 prindle 16 - current boat "Blew By You"
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Posted: Sep 19, 2013 - 12:44 PM
He's a sailor.....wha'd ya' expect?!
Edited by rattlenhum on Sep 19, 2013 - 12:47 PM.
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Jerome Vaughan
Hobie 16
Clinton, Mississippi
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Posted: Sep 19, 2013 - 01:08 PM
Don't put to much thought into it Vince. Sail the boat you are most comfortable on and the one you plan to keep sailing. Racing comes down to time on the boat and you can never predict the weather.
I will see you on the beach for Redfish Reach.
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Nacra 6.0na.Sail #111
Nacra 18 Square. Sail #1004
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Posted: Sep 19, 2013 - 05:13 PM
that's what i'm talking about...take the race boat and drive it hard! cruise on the 18...
maybe the winds will be up above 15 and some seas...I love that stuff!
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bill harris
hattiesburg, mississippi
prindle 16- "BLUE RIBBON"
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Posted: Sep 20, 2013 - 07:30 AM
Sailing 5.7 and a 5.0 for 35 yrs...get the weight and balance correct and you can fly the hull as soon as you get cleaned up!
Enjoy! -
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Posted: Sep 23, 2013 - 05:03 AM
I sail with a bunch of Hobie guys! I watch everything from my Reynolds 21, I see all types of boats i have noticed if the wind isnt so great the 16's i pass them all day! They guy with the H18's I cant touch them at all! I say the 18 is the coolest boat made yes there is the JIB to get stuck on but a few tacks and turns you will learn how to cross over the sheets! I say H18 all the way!
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1980 Reynolds 21 Catamaran #38
1988 Farrier 27 # 31
2002 Hobie Getaway
Pennsylvania, PA.
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