Oracle Team USA has now won 5 races in a row and have now tied New Zealand with 8 wins each. Unfortunately because of a 2 race point penalty imposed by the jury for an infraction (5 pounds of extra weight in the king post of a 3,100 lb boat) during the earlier Americas Cup World Series, New Zealand still holds match point and Oracle will have to win the next three races to retain the cup.
http://www.americascup.com/en/results-standings
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Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN
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Americas Cup - Oracle Comeback Continues
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Posted: Sep 23, 2013 - 05:18 PM
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Posted: Sep 23, 2013 - 08:24 PM
talk about compelling tv! I have learned more about racing watching this coverage, the graphics and multiple camera angles have been a pleasant surprise. the sense of urgency has made for good a good series.
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Posted: Sep 24, 2013 - 07:43 AM
amazing coverage
USA/Oracle should have been penalized more (imho)
no excuses for cheating. placing extra weight in the front of the boat instead of the designated area is grossly poor sportsmanship - would be disqualified in any other event -
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Posted: Sep 24, 2013 - 09:05 AM
At this level, If you aren't cheating, you aren't trying hard enough. To exploit the rules to maximum advantage, you have to push the boundaries.
I think the penalty is hooey. It's similar to Derek Jeter and Ichiro of New York Yankees using corked bats in a spring training game and the team getting penalized 1 game of the World Series.
Oracle got caught. Everyone cheats, not everyone gets caught.
In highschool, I played Tight End and Guard, on defense I played Middle Linebacker and Defensive End.
I can tell you that I got called for 2 holding penalties in 30 games (3 years x 10 games/year). I know I committed the "act" of Holding on at least 60% of the plays. I was also held at least that often while on defense, and the refs caught 3 or 4 of them.
Edited by presto13031 on Sep 24, 2013 - 10:06 AM.
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Jeff
Houston TX
1986 Hobie 18 Sail# 13031
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Posted: Sep 24, 2013 - 01:36 PM
What was the motive for adding the weight. Were they trying to hold down the boat at the center of effort? I cant seem to find a discussion about why.
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Posted: Sep 24, 2013 - 03:36 PM
the boat was faster with the extra weight. -
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Posted: Sep 24, 2013 - 04:43 PM
WOW, watch races 17 and 18 if you haven't already, the replays should be available soon at
http://www.youtube.com/user/AmericasCup
Oracle has now won 10 races to New Zealands 8, with Oracle winning the last 7 in a row. Both races today were highly dramatic, I'm still breathing hard.
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Posted: Sep 24, 2013 - 05:53 PM
Replays for today's races 17 and 18 are now available on Youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/user/AmericasCup
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Damon Linkous
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Posted: Sep 24, 2013 - 06:26 PM
Race 17 and 18 were AWESOME! Way to go USA!
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Posted: Sep 24, 2013 - 08:13 PM
Speechless
Edited by JohnES on Sep 24, 2013 - 08:14 PM.
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John Schwartz
Ventura, CA
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Posted: Sep 24, 2013 - 09:57 PM
I disagree, using the extent of the rules is one thing, blatant cheating another. Isn't that what got Lehman Bros in such deep shyte, end result bankruptcy?
I always taught my kids it was better to place 2nd, or 3rd, or maybe off the podium, rather than cheat to win.
One of my finest moments as a parent was when my daughter took 1st in a downhill ski race. She told the gatekeepers that she should have been DQ'd as she straddled a gate. They told her they didn't see it, so the results stand.
She took off her gold medal on the podium & handed it to the girl who placed 2nd, then stepped off the podium.
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Posted: Sep 25, 2013 - 07:33 AM
At every level - cheating is cheating
Rules of Racing - page 10 - http://www.sailing.org/tools/documents/RRS20132016StudyVersion-[13380].pdf
SPORTSMANSHIP AND THE RULES
Competitors in the sport of sailing are governed by a body of rules
that they are expected to follow and enforce. A fundamental principle
of sportsmanship is that when competitors break a rule they will
promptly take a penalty, which may be to retire.
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Posted: Sep 25, 2013 - 07:36 AM
I believe (Philip will correct me if i am wrong here) That the AC 45's boats (being One Design) all had a min weight requirement. There was a designated area of the boat where xtra weight was to be placed to meet the requirements and Oracle chose to place the weight up front where it would be advantageous (cheating)
The worst part of this is .... they were already the defender of the cup, they were going to be in the race regardless - there was no need to cheat / or even win -
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Posted: Sep 25, 2013 - 08:10 AM
In summary, Andrew is spot on, although the experts all agree that the placement (location), theoretically would offer no advantage. Oracle immediately withdrew from ACWS, and forfeited all races and wins, and returned the trophies. I could write a book about it, so I'm not jumping in here. We've covered "ballastgate" in depth already. Plus I'm completely consumed for today, it is after all, MATCH DAY!
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Philip
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Posted: Sep 25, 2013 - 09:06 AM
Exactly what should have been done. I also don't have a problem with the individual penalties for the crew members but the two race penalty is a bit of a stretch. To go back to presto's baseball comparison this like forfeiting a game in the world series for using a corked bat in in spring training in Double A ball. The one good thing from this is we got to see 2 extra races!
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Posted: Sep 25, 2013 - 09:22 AM
I have been reading forum after forum where people close to the AC and know much more than I could ever hope to know felt the penalty was unduly harsh and draconian. What is inspiring to me is watching the Oracle TEAM pull together and stage the ultimate comeback despite almost impossible odds! And its not just Spithil .......it's the grinders, tacticians, trimmers the ground crew working on the boat all night to get it ready for the next race all the while believing in each other as a TEAM! Anybody watching Oracle rounding mark four under full foil at 35 knots in race 18 HAS to be impressed!! Go TEAM ORACLE!!! -
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Posted: Sep 25, 2013 - 10:12 AM
Hey Guys< im new to this beachcat world although i have raced on trimarans and mono hulls up to 100 feet long. Yes the whole "Ballastgate" thing is an issue but im going to blame the Larry Ellison. I know the ac45 and ac72 are pretty neat and slick boats. But Seriously Larry Ellison really ruined the sport by being biased about monohulls and became a smart A** and decided build these boats with having the pressure on the other teams that need funds to create it. I can see why Alinghi isn't in it and why NZ is pissed off especially with all the court issues they went through. IM PRETTY SURE ORACLE DOESNT NEED ADVICE FROM Ellison TO WIN anything. Larry Elision= money Talks Bs walks
ORACLE WILL WIN With Help Or Not.
GO ORACLE TEAM USA..WOOHOO
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:) Eriel
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Posted: Sep 25, 2013 - 11:12 AM
While we are waiting for the race this afternoon here is some good reading. An interview with Gino Morrelli about the origin of the boat rules for the current Cup. He has some interesting things to say about foiling and his ideas for the future of the boats.
http://www.sailingworld.c…cas-cup/writing-the-rule
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Damon Linkous
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Posted: Sep 25, 2013 - 11:29 AM
My statement wasn't meant to condone cheating. I repeated what a NASCAR crew chief had said when he got caught. He is now in charge of catching the cheaters in NASCAR. Irony, huh?
The 2 ideas my post was meant to convey was:
1. In order to maximize performance the grey areas of the rules must be thoroughly explored. Sometimes the line gets crossed.
2. Blatant cheating should be caught and punished according to the severity of the infractions.
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Jeff
Houston TX
1986 Hobie 18 Sail# 13031
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Posted: Sep 25, 2013 - 01:36 PM
yea but what do those guys know? they can only turn left and go around in circles?
we at least go around in triangles and other shapes :)
