Hi all!
I bought a Prindle 16, too late in the season to be able to actually put it in the water. So that will have to wait till next spring. However, I did rig it up on my driveway. Boy, it's a bit of a procedure! I am looking for suggestions on various rigging optimizations, such as snap shackles, pushbutton pins, etc. that would facilitate getting it ready quicker. My thoughts were to buy a pushbutton pin for every shackle (forestay, mainsheet block), boom gooseneck, sidestays (both attachment and tensioning) - and that's about it. Any other suggestions - or advice as to why I should not do that - would be greatly welcome.
It turned out that the seller never actually sailed the boat. So, I have no idea if the hulls will fill up the moment I drop it off the trailer, if every line will snap at the first gust of wind, or any other untowardly thing that might occur instead of pleasant sailing experience. So by way of preparation for the next season (I am too chicken and too green - or is it lubbery? - to try sailing it when the air is colder and there are fewer boats in the water that might pluck me out if it splits into small pieces half a mile from shore), I would appreciate suggestions on what to check (soft spots, delamination - what's that?) before going out for the first time.
Also, I heard - but don't know for sure - that sail boats get "tuned" for "weather", "crew" and whatever other variable circumstances. I have no interest in wringing out top performance out of the boat the first time out, but safer and more stable configuration would be preferable. To that end, I am aware of a "mast rake" that will make the boat turn into the wind if (when?) I fall off. My understanding is that it is hard to "rake" the mast too much, at least in a sense of diminished stability - although it might get my tiller hand tired. I heard that adjusting the mast rake is not done on the water. If I understood correctly, it would involve adjusting the forestay and the sidestays one by one. Seems like it should be doable if uncomfortable - at least with two person crew, or am I being a lubber again and all I will do is drop my mast without a hope of raising it again on the water?
Further in the vein of rigging - I have been told that mast stays should not be overtigtened, but if I read my Prindle manual correctly it said to tighten them as much as possible. Is that correct? Oh, and I read something about a "mast rotator" in the Prindle manual, but did not find anything looking like the manual photo on my mast. My boat could be missing it, or it might be on a 18 and/or 15 only since the manual is written for three boats (ugh!).
Finally, the only boat I ever sailed was a Hobie Wave, which did not have a traveler (or jib for that matter, but I am less confused by that particular implement). That made mainsheet a simple concept. You sheet it in, or you sheet it out - depending on how much wind you want to bleed or at what angle you need to catch the wind. It would seem that you could do the same thing on a P16 without any such fancy thing as a traveler. Any information on how to handle said traveler (with the understanding that the reader is a noob) and, as a bonus, why it is there, would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
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Mike
Prindle 16
Rochester, NY
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Prindle 16 newbie, looking for tips on faster setup, beginner configuration and overall not sinking
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Posted: Sep 24, 2013 - 10:48 PM
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Posted: Sep 25, 2013 - 04:40 AM
Whoa....that's a lot of questions :) I am a newbie on this forum but I just purchased a Prindle 18 about a month ago, so I can help with some of this stuff. First, use the search function here and also look at the technical photo section. Every question you have has answers here. I have spent hours doing this while figuring out the nuances of the boat.
Faster Rigging: I would stay away from quick release pins for any standing rigging. I think the worst thing I can imagine is a dismasting out on the water. I believe quick releases are hollow. So, do not do anything that would increase chances. Just my thoughts. I leave my sidestays and trapeze lines connected to the boat, always. I just coil them onto the tramp and fasten them with velcro to the hiking straps. Forestay has to be released for obvious reasons. I just ordered clevis pins (too cheap for push buttons), for boom, the clew of of the mainsail and main blocks. I keep my rudders on the boat for travel. I made some blocks for them. Actually, go here...I documented a bunch of stuff I dealt with on the boat; http://www.thebeachcats.c…ctures/?g2_itemId=103882
Soft spots: Go through every inch and push with your hands. You will be able tell what they mean by soft spots. Most likely to be found on decks. Again, tons of info in the technical photo section on how to deal with this. The method is pure genius. I wish I knew it twenty years ago when I bought my first beater boat. Pretty much everything can be repaired, and the folks on this forum are some of the best at it from what I have seen.
Tuning: Yup, do a search (see the trend yet?). I would not go nuts about it. Read up on it so you will at least understand what is going on when you go out on your first sail.
Diamonds: If you have just tight enough that the first 12 inches can be squeezed to touch mast is just fine. Once you know what you are doing you can fine tune it. Then, call me and explain it to me so I can do it to my boat :)
Stays: I run them as tight as I can set it. I will have someone pull on the trap wire so I can adjust the sidestays. You will be amazed how much the mast will bend and put slack to the leeward side.
Traveller: For now, just set it and forget it. If you get into some big broad reach runs it is nice because you can "sheet out" with the traveller and not the main, thus eliminating a huge uncontrollable belly in the sail. I believe it is meant to work much like a vang would on some other boats.
Pete
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New Prindle 18-2 Owner
Former Prindle 18 Owner
Multiple Hobie 16s
Boylston Massachusetts
Webster Lake Indian Lake Narragnsett Bay in Rhode Island
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Posted: Sep 25, 2013 - 07:36 AM
DON"T use quick pins for standing rigging!
Dude... you're overthinking! Your rigging time will speed up the more you do it. You'll make mistakes from time to time - everybody does.
Don't worry now about "tuning" - just get it in your head how that boat goes together.
Unless the boat has a big hole in or you forget to put the drain plugs in - it's not going to sink.
I think you should put in the water and sail it this weekend - as long as its not blowing too hard.
(you don't have a mast rotator that's a 15/18 thing - you don't have diamond wires that's an 18 thing)
Post some pictures of your boat...
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Rob Jones
1976 Yellow p-16 - parts is parts - hulls cut up
1978 Yellow p-16 - in good working order
1979 White p-15 - parts is parts - hulls cut up
1985 White p-15 - good working order
1982 White NACRA 5.8 - project boat.
1986 White p-16 - in good working order
1975 White Hobie 3.5 - PM me if you want it
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Posted: Sep 25, 2013 - 08:11 AM
Pete,
Thanks for taking the time to answer my many questions. I have heard of this search feature, of course, but then I would have to do the work instead of making you do it
No, really - I have tried the search function of course - both on the site and on the google - but the problem is that I am a real noob and sailing has not bothered to update its terminology since what, 16th century? So it is difficult to weed out the answers to my questions out of something like "sheet your leeward gaff clew to the starboard cleat clevis pin". The most I can figure out of such answers are prepositions and articles, with perhaps an odd pronoun here and there 
Search function is the way to go when you are able to comprehend answers, or at least form coherent questions. In my condition, unless the search turns up a comprehensive "how to be a noob" post, the only way to move forward is for someone to take pity on me as you did. So thanks again.
Mike.
P.S. Dismasting the worst thing you can imagine? Bah! You have poor imagination, or else you are an optimist. I expect having to be towed or to row to shore with a mast across your deck would suck, but my nightmare is discovering that the boat is listing because one of the hulls is half-full of water and filling. Can you even rescue a boat in that circumstance?
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Mike
Prindle 16
Rochester, NY
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Posted: Sep 25, 2013 - 10:40 AM
Get this: http://www.amazon.com/Cat…ed-Edition/dp/039331880X
I think this is the third time that I have purchased the book. I think it is very helpful.
Where are you located?
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New Prindle 18-2 Owner
Former Prindle 18 Owner
Multiple Hobie 16s
Boylston Massachusetts
Webster Lake Indian Lake Narragnsett Bay in Rhode Island
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Posted: Sep 25, 2013 - 10:45 AM
Pete, thanks for the link, I will certainly avail myself to it. Too bad it's not available on Kindle, but I'll have to condescend to learning from dead trees.
I am in Rochester, NY. I should get around to setting up a proper sig one of these days.
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Mike
Prindle 16
Rochester, NY
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Posted: Sep 26, 2013 - 08:09 AM
Half filled hull is also not the worst that can happen either.
I Was on the DE bay over labor day weekend and assisted to bring in a Hobie 16 that had pitchpoled. The captain could not right it as the starboard hull had begun to fill up. Took the captain (and a very upset spouse) a local waterman and I to get it righted and yes, a half filled hull can be brought in to shore. A mile and a half out and quite the show for the beach. One helicopter (state police), one state police boat, two different fire department boats and a harbor patrol boat - along with the waterman who assisted. All was well that ended well - just very embarrassing for the captain.
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Supercat 15
Windrider 17
Several Sunfish and Sunfish clones
Ratboat built from Zuma and Sunfish parts
Shallow water sailor in the Delaware Bay
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Posted: Sep 26, 2013 - 08:56 AM
Here it is - still on the driveway though...
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Mike
Prindle 16
Rochester, NY
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Posted: Sep 26, 2013 - 09:02 AM
It is not going to sink.
Your boat looks great! Looks like she was hardly used - can't be sure without better pictures but there is very little wear
Take her for a sail!!!
Your trailer configuration however leaves a lot to be desired. You need to fix that.
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Rob Jones
1976 Yellow p-16 - parts is parts - hulls cut up
1978 Yellow p-16 - in good working order
1979 White p-15 - parts is parts - hulls cut up
1985 White p-15 - good working order
1982 White NACRA 5.8 - project boat.
1986 White p-16 - in good working order
1975 White Hobie 3.5 - PM me if you want it
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Posted: Sep 26, 2013 - 09:35 AM
Oh, it was used enough to have a visibly uneven patch job on one of the hulls. It was painted over though, so it must be alright
That's what I am working on right now. The previous owner - the one who never got around to putting it in the water - built the trailer himself. He used 2x6 lumber for the frame, which makes the cat sit at least 4" higher than it needs to - I plan to remedy that with some steel frame tubing at the first opportunity.
That's not the biggest problem though - the mast mounting hardware did not survive the 5 mile delivery from his driveway to mine. He used a Hobie Mast Caddie split into two. The top part of the Mast Caddie (the mast clamp) was mounted on top of a 2x3 piece of lumber that cracked when I tried to remove the mast from it. The bottom part of the Mast Caddie (the rear crossbar clamp) was fashioned with some loose wood pieces in a way that endeavored to clamp the mast to the crossmember directly. That mound fell apart in transit, so now the mast has some minor dents in it (at least it still looks pretty straight though) where it was clamped by the top part of the mast caddie and where he tied it directly to the crossmember without any padding.
I plan to keep using the mast clamp from the deceased Mast Caddie (it's too broken to put back together) as the top of the mast stand, except that I am using a 1.5" galvanized steel pipe instead of wood. For the rear, I plan to use some thick (4" or so) rubber padding that I will gouge out cross-wise on opposite sides so as to rest securely on the crossbar and provide a resting spot for the mast. I intend to use some bungee ties to secure the mast to the loop (the nautical term escapes me at the moment) that is used to tie off the traveler end of the mainsheet.
Also, he had a ridiculous contraption to secure the sail tube to the trailer, that is certainly getting redone. There are actually steel loops that come with the sail tube that he for some reason elected not to use - I will screw those to some steel joist braces and then screw the joist braces to the 2x6s while I have them. When I get the 2x6s replaced with steel frame tubing, I will secure the loops directly to the frame tubing with through bolts.
That's all I can think of for trailer updates - but I am more than open to any suggestions. This is the first boat trailer I ever owned, so I am sure I could learn a thing or five about how they should be put together.
Cheers,
Mike.
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Mike
Prindle 16
Rochester, NY
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Posted: Sep 26, 2013 - 10:26 AM
If you are concerned about the water tightness of the hulls put them under a slight positive pressure. Use the drain plugs as an air inlet. Fashion a fitting to adapt a shop vac outlet. You could also use a schrader valve adapted to the drain plug and a bicycle pump. Once under pressure use soapy water on all fittings and seams to check for leaks. Don't forget to check the drain plugs themselves. The are a prime suspect for leaks. I can't suggest using an air compressor for this process. You could pop the hulls. Be sure to seal up the mast at all the fittings.
Check all the clevis pins and rings for corrosion. I have had clevis rings disappear on me because the wore out where they passed through the pin.
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'82 Super Cat 15
Hull #315
Virginia
Previously owned: '70 H14, '79 H16, '68 Sailmaster 26, '85 H14T
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Posted: Sep 26, 2013 - 10:32 AM
You need to change the geometry of the trailer.
You need the front trailer crossbar to be much further forward.
When you strap a cat the straps should be behind the aft cat crossbar and in front of the forward cat crossbar.
diagram here:
http://www.thebeachcats.c…-sail-tube-construction/
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Rob Jones
1976 Yellow p-16 - parts is parts - hulls cut up
1978 Yellow p-16 - in good working order
1979 White p-15 - parts is parts - hulls cut up
1985 White p-15 - good working order
1982 White NACRA 5.8 - project boat.
1986 White p-16 - in good working order
1975 White Hobie 3.5 - PM me if you want it
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Posted: Sep 26, 2013 - 11:11 AM
Yep. Been there done that. except not half full... FULL. Towed to ramp by ski boat with one hull about 2 ft under water. Tied submerged hull to correct location on trailer, removed plug and port cap and pulled out SLOWLY. A few inches ever 5-10 minutes to allow the water to exit the hull slowly while the hull was still supported on the outside by the surrounding water. Yank in out quick and you will likely split the hull, bend/break your trailer, or both. Mine was from a catastrophic failure of unknown cause but it filled up within 5-10 minutes. Now I have three large inflatable rubber balls in each hull. They are the cheap 18" walmart variety ($2.50 each) they are partially inflated and by my calculations 3 of the partially inflated balls provide enough buoyancy to support the in excess of 50% of the weight of the boat assuming the hull is otherwise completely full of water. -
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Posted: Sep 26, 2013 - 11:34 AM
Be very careful, don't be tempted to hook up something like an air compressor or you will definitly have leaky hulls, maybe even a broken boat hull.
Something like a hair dryer hand-held near the drain opening will provide plenty of pressure to produce bubbles from leaks.
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Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN
How To Create Your Signature
How To Create Your Own Cool Avatar
How To Display Pictures In The Forums.
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Posted: Sep 26, 2013 - 12:46 PM
I believe I covered that.
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'82 Super Cat 15
Hull #315
Virginia
Previously owned: '70 H14, '79 H16, '68 Sailmaster 26, '85 H14T
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Posted: Sep 26, 2013 - 01:55 PM
dude...our sail numbers are four digits apart and the same color...
Well, that is my second sail anyways. I generally use the one in my avatar because it matches the boat better, but the 8140 sail is a lot newer and in better shape.
Edited by vinnyvincent on Sep 26, 2013 - 01:58 PM.
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Vince
Houston, TX
1982 prindle 16 - became a parts boat shortly after purchase. "The Crackling Hullflyer"
1984 prindle 16 - current boat "Blew By You"
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Posted: Sep 26, 2013 - 01:59 PM
I was wondering what the number's significance was... Is it the boat's original sail then? I would have thought that in the intervening 30 years at least one set of sails would get used up. Or are replacement sails by convention affixed with the original number?
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Mike
Prindle 16
Rochester, NY
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Posted: Sep 26, 2013 - 02:06 PM
Are those dimensions for a Prindle 16? Or a 16' cat in general? Do I need to find out what the precise dimensions are for a "genuine" Prindle 16 trailer? Am I to consider myself lucky that the hulls did not (HOPEFULLY!) crack in the 5 miles that the previous owner drove it to my house with incorrectly positioned hull supports? Should I absolutely positively not put it on the road like this lest I damage the boat, or is it simply a good idea to get the trailer to support the hulls wider?
I actually paid money for the trailer under assumption that it was in fact somewhat matched to the boat and was used to transport it on multiple occasions, but now that I know that it was transported exactly once (to my house, and with questionable results at that) I have zero confidence that this trailer is suitable and would certainly appreciate some guidance on figuring that out.
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Mike
Prindle 16
Rochester, NY
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Posted: Sep 26, 2013 - 02:17 PM
Whether its the original sail that came with the boat, I can't say for sure. It was the only sail that came with the boat when I bought it. The white and blue sail is a spare sail that I had left over after I ditched the junk hulls and bought the blue boat you see in the picture with the 8120 sail.
someone correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the numbers on the sail signify what numerical order the sail was produced by that particular sail maker. in our case our sails were made by the original manufacturer of prindle(surfglas, which doesn't necessarily mean they came with that boat or any boat). If you were to purchase a sail from an aftermarket sail maker and it was only their third prindle 16 sail they ever made, your sail number would be 3.
Judging from the amount of prindle 16's produced and the condition that mine is in, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that my 8120 sail is not likely to have came with my 1984 prindle and is probably newer. I'd be willing to believe the white and blue sail in my avatar could have very well been the original sail that came with my old 1982 P16 as shown, but can't say for sure.
at any rate it seems like you are over thinking things. I am the same way and was more so when I got my P16 at first, which was my first catamaran.
you just need to take it out a few times and then figure it all out from there. There were so many things I thought I needed or thought was an issue and after taking it out a few times I realized that the boat was pretty much good to go and didn't really need many adjustments, just a few minor things.
Edited by vinnyvincent on Sep 26, 2013 - 02:17 PM.
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Vince
Houston, TX
1982 prindle 16 - became a parts boat shortly after purchase. "The Crackling Hullflyer"
1984 prindle 16 - current boat "Blew By You"
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Posted: Sep 26, 2013 - 02:54 PM
It seems most of these boats come with their original sails.
Your sails and Vinny's sails most likely came with the boats - I believe sail numbers were sequential unless custom ordered.
I wouldn't take it on the highway like that for sure - its not about the boat either - its about killing somebody else.
I have 3 trailers - two are the same model - one is different. The oddball is a "little dude" and the other 2 are ezloader sprints. I hauled the NACRA 5.8 150 miles on one of the ezloaders without adjustment - no issues. The dimensions are general for beachcats that are 14-20 feet in length most likely. The width is very standard and is either going to be 8' or 8'6" for the vast majority of cats - of course you have your 18^2s - tornadoes and other super wide cats.
I think you can totally make the trailer you have work and only spend a few bucks doing it - so no need for buyers remorse!
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Rob Jones
1976 Yellow p-16 - parts is parts - hulls cut up
1978 Yellow p-16 - in good working order
1979 White p-15 - parts is parts - hulls cut up
1985 White p-15 - good working order
1982 White NACRA 5.8 - project boat.
1986 White p-16 - in good working order
1975 White Hobie 3.5 - PM me if you want it
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