The following information illustrates in my opinion why no one should ever use nylon or other synthetic pins for rudder pins in a catamaran . I would like to suggest that Hobie ban them from Hobie regattas in the future.
In anticipation of the surf at the Hobie North American Championships in Galveston in October 2013, I being on the conservative side purchased in good faith two pairs of Nylaton rudder pins. My intent was to be extra careful and change them out mid-week since it is known that these things can degrade over time if you research the forums. Well, to make a long story short, the pins only lasted for a duration of a couple of hours sailing. The starboard pin failed as we were trying to pass astern of a starboard right-a way boat. The failure caused us to head up into his side causing much damage to both boats and slightly injuring my crew. Please note that the pin failed because of a normal turning action in a race. The rudders had no contact with anything other than water prior or during the race. The pin could not hold up to this force and deformed just short of breaking and popped up vertically dropping the starboard rudder free from the gudgeons. (Note : there were cotter pin holes on only one end of the pin. In the old days, there used to be cotter pins top and bottom. Examining the pin, in my opinion, it would have snapped if it had not popped up as it was nearly severed where it bore against the gudgeon so I am not sure a pin at the bottom would have made any difference. )
I contacted the manufacturer of this pin in regard to the above accident and he is considering taking the pins off the market or providing more information in regards to their limitations .
I would appreciate opinions and feedback on banning this type of product from Hobie racing . There are other synthetic pins out there including one sold by Hobie. In my opinion only steel and aluminum should be used.
Synthetic Rudder Pin Failure During Race
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- Rank: Lubber
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Posted: Dec 22, 2013 - 04:49 PM
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Posted: Dec 22, 2013 - 08:43 PM
wow !
sorry to hear
I personally never used them on either of my hobies, but did break my h18 castings hitting bottom and considered using them. the local sailing shop owner suggested i didn't, and i took his advice
I now have a spare parts bin with extra rudders, castings, and parts - seems cheaper than what you describe above (2 boats damaged and hurt crew)
could be lots of reasons for the failure. maybe the forces of a h20 rudders are to much, maybe the pin was old stock and brittle, maybe it was a bad batch of nylon and didn't have the usual strength
i think if the pin had cotter above and below it would have a much better chance of staying in place and would never use a rudder pin that wasn't locked into place (if for no other reason so it couldn't fall out during a capsize) -
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Posted: Dec 23, 2013 - 06:04 AM
I wouldn't ban a product from one failure.
Where did you buy these pins and were they new? I am assuming this was not from your Hobie dealer?
Hundreds of boats are out there with old plastic and fiberglass pins. -
- Rank: Lubber
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Posted: Dec 23, 2013 - 06:07 AM
H20,
That really stinks! Especially when you took the time and effort to have the boat race ready when you went to the water. As bad as it was ( two boats and your crew) luckly it wasn't worse.
As a Bodily Injury Insurance Adjuster, may I make a suggestion that you write the manufacturer and get his insurance coverage information and put them on notice of the claim. You only have a short period of time to do so, and don't want you to loose that window. At the least they need to resolve all damages and the injuries to your crew. Make sure that any settlement that is had, includes your name and or the name of the owenrs of the boat you were driving. I would suggest also you contact the other skipper and crew and verify that there are no injuries that have popped up since the accident. Make sure you save the pin, and photograph all damages. I know this sounds like over kill, but its better to get all the documents now then wishing you had 3-4 years from now if this whole thing blows up.
Good Luck!
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Forrest
I-20 USA-645
Hernando, Florida
"There's not enough rum in the drum"
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Posted: Dec 23, 2013 - 06:29 AM
GREAT ADVICE FORREST!
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- Rank: Lubber
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Posted: Dec 23, 2013 - 07:01 AM
Great feedback. Thanks. A couple of clarifications. I sail a H20 and a Hobie 18. This occurred on a Hobie 18 with pins sold as functionable for a H18 by a national supplier. My insurance company was onsite the next day and settled with the other party. We got them repaired and back on the water..... and they had no injuries. I corresponded with the pin manufacturer and put them on notice. They honorably stepped up to the plate and gave us some minor compensation in the form of credits. We are investing in helmets after 30 yrs of bareheaded sailing ! We were fully insured and our insurance company took care of us after some negotiations. My main intent here is to educate others to use metal pins ! -
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Posted: Dec 23, 2013 - 12:35 PM
The pins were brand new out of the package. My Hobie dealer is 150 miles away.
Edited by h20tytx on Dec 23, 2013 - 12:41 PM. -
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Posted: Dec 23, 2013 - 01:49 PM
Brand new out of the package doesn't mean they weren't sitting on a shelf for a decade or 2
nylon degrades with time
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Posted: Dec 23, 2013 - 03:03 PM
Stainless pins only ! I have had several plastic , glass pins fail over the years and aluminum wears to quick. Stainless , stainless , stainless
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Doug Klem
Pensacola , Fl.
Blade F16
Prindle 18-2 w/spin
Prindle 18-2 x 3
Prindle 19 MX
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Posted: Dec 23, 2013 - 06:59 PM
De-Pins on your location. The need for plastic or any pins other than metal (aluminum or stainless) depends on your location. On the Gulf Coast with nothing but sand beaches or mud bottoms it would be a rare occurrence for a rudder bottom out to break rudder castings. If you sail waters with hard bottoms or rocks it may be more important. Personally I agree that the plastics wear too fast. On a Slip to Ship Regatta in the mid 90s on my Hobie 18 we were 15 miles offshore and in 3-4 ft seas and both pins broke sending my entire rudder system to the sea floor. I had just put them in brand new that morning! Luckily I was able to ride the brisk southerly wind all true way back in to the beach but many miles down the beach and many hours later. My advice is also stainless. Period.
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paulrees
still no cat but looking
h18 and h16 racer in a prior life
Mandeville, LA - PYC
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Posted: Dec 23, 2013 - 07:13 PM
If the pin came out due to bending, that is easily solved by placing the pin inside a relatively snug fitting tube. A piece of aluminum tube just long enough to fit between the gudgeons will prevent any bending. The weakest link would now be the shear strength of the plastic/nylon.
I cannot attest to whether synthetic material is strong enough, our 3 cats all use SS, but this simple jig will guarantee the pin can only fail under shear.
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Posted: Dec 25, 2013 - 03:42 PM
Don't use plastic or aluminum rudder pins on a Hobie 18! I heard about this unfortunate failure at this year's NAC and it really is a shame. Hobie shouldn't spec anything other than stainless steel pins for the 18. I've heard countless stories of rudder pins bending or breaking because the owner thought he was doing something proactive by sailing in the surf with pins that weren't stainless. The rudder loads are simply too high for anything other than stainless to be used. Even if the rudder pin failure doesn't cause a collision, it still causes a major headache as you have to try to sail in on one rudder (many times the entire rudder assembly on the broken pin side will be lost as well).
sm
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