Thanks a TON!
Original discussion here :
http://www.hobiecat.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=51207&p=234544#p234544
--
Tim Grover
1996 Hobie Miracle 20
Two Hobie 14's
1983 G-Cat Restored
Memphis TN / North Mississippi
--
Hobie 20 Rigging. Need Engineering PhD to decipher these pics??
-
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: Jul 20, 2011
- Last visit: Apr 07, 2019
- Posts: 323
Posted: May 14, 2014 - 11:28 PM
I "thought" I had a pretty good grasp of things going by the hobie 20 FAQ but it seems there's many many variants to individual rigging! Most guys here i'm sure have moved on to more modern F18's, I20's ect from the discontinued H20 but do all the adjustments make a huge difference? Being a novice racer, do you experienced guys see something that I should definitely do that's not a stock arrangement?
Thanks a TON!
Original discussion here :
http://www.hobiecat.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=51207&p=234544#p234544
--
Tim Grover
1996 Hobie Miracle 20
Two Hobie 14's
1983 G-Cat Restored
Memphis TN / North Mississippi
-- -
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: Jun 17, 2011
- Last visit: Sep 24, 2023
- Posts: 783
Posted: May 15, 2014 - 05:47 AM
I'm not familiar with stock H20s, I wish you would have been more clear that those were different boats! The 2nd pic would appear to have a fancy jib down haul, seems overkill to me. I can't quite make sense of the rotation system on the first pic, seems way too complicated. One of my i20s had a 6:1 rotation system to the beam and the other had a super simple system as seen on a Hobie 18. Guess which one worked better?
The faster guys I know mostly don't play with most gadgets. They say to just drive the boat, I think there is much truth to that.
--
Greenville SC
Offering sails and other go fast parts for A-class catamarans
-- -
- Rank: Master Chief
- Registered: Jun 20, 2006
- Last visit: May 22, 2024
- Posts: 7089
Posted: May 15, 2014 - 07:27 AM
Huge? - if they are all set wrong then yes, if set correctly, then yes - but eacg item it's self is a (very) small % of all the factors that go into your speed and vmg
each one of these adjustments matters - downhaul, outhaul, rotation matter, prebend, mainsheet tension and angle of attack, as does jib: inhaul/outhaul/forward/aft, as does mainsail draft, batten tension and weigh placement - all factors that either allow you to maximize speed or reduce it as do non adjustable factors (sail shape, hull shape, rudder/board shape, etc)
Not sure if i understand your question. when you say "arrangement" do you mean the way the downhaul (and others) are reeved? if you mean non stock equip...
many hobie's like to race class - and that doesn't allow for non stock items (or extremely few), if you are racing portsmith - technically every "upgrade" or non-class item should be reported when you race and you get a "hit" or penalty for them (each one)
if you just want to sail faster than all the other hobie's and darts, and prindles on your beach... go nutz, get every gadget, carbon part, secret propeller you want ....
ps - disclaimer, i have raced dozens of times as both crew and skip, but i don't claim to be a "racer" -
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: Apr 15, 2005
- Last visit: Feb 21, 2024
- Posts: 574
Posted: May 15, 2014 - 07:41 AM
It is better for a novice racer to spend more time on the water than fiddling. Darren Bundocks C2 is a bone simple, stock factory boat. BUT, the C2 comes rigged for racing out of the box...downhaul led to crews trapeze with a bungee take up system, spinnaker retrieval line setup with bungee takeups, quick release on the mast rotation etc. On a F18, all of these controls are VERY important to get the last few % out of the boat. Anyone that says it is better to just drive is lying to you, or they have a rockstar crew on the front of the boat and don't even know what strings are being pulled when and to what effect.
My suggestion is to go sailing, go find some other Hobie 20's to sail with, start looking at their rigging and getting some ideas, but KEEP IT SIMPLE. Oh, and most importantly, get some REGULAR crew.
Edited by samc99us on May 15, 2014 - 07:43 AM. -
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: Jun 17, 2011
- Last visit: Sep 24, 2023
- Posts: 783
Posted: May 15, 2014 - 08:34 AM
I think the people who have suggested just driving it are pretty accomplished sailors and have a genuine interest in helping the rest of the group become faster sailors.
For example, we had 3 XJ A cats in our group. They were all pretty similar. The fastest guy only touches the sheet and the downhaul while racing. His head is completely outside the boat and he is just sailing and winning. The slow guy has all of the toys including adjustable spreaders and is so focused on all of that crap that he is continually bringing up the rear because he's more focused on way too many little things. Based on this topic, you might think that the boat with the fancier rigging rigging is the faster one, however that would be an incorrect assumption.
--
Greenville SC
Offering sails and other go fast parts for A-class catamarans
-- -
- Rank: Master Chief
- Registered: Jun 20, 2006
- Last visit: May 22, 2024
- Posts: 7089
Posted: May 15, 2014 - 09:51 AM
IMHO the statement "it is better to just drive"is only an expression and a bit tongue and cheek as no one could sail a boat without touching sheets - but the point is "sit down, sit still, stop fiddling with everything and drive" and is right on the money
in light air i get my ass kicked by a 72 year old all the time. he basically lies down on his gcat5.0 and steers as little and sheets as little as possible.
I am getting much better (after sailing behind him for a decade now) but i am still setting and resetting sails, travlers, and the cooler lids a lot more than he does, and I can hear him chuckle from ahead, or as he is passing me. he can also point that freakin thing 20* higher than me. -
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: Nov 02, 2004
- Last visit: Aug 07, 2023
- Posts: 626
Posted: May 15, 2014 - 10:15 AM
Those damn cooler lids.
--
Ron
Nacra F18
Reservoir Sailing Assn.
Brandon, Mississippi
-- -
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: Mar 19, 2004
- Last visit: Nov 21, 2024
- Posts: 964
Posted: May 15, 2014 - 10:29 AM
I raced a H20 for several years in the '90s and early 2000's.
I would recommend you run the boat more or less stock. Mostly what is being shown in those pics are cascading downhaul systems. Basically what a cascading downhaul does is eliminate a couple blocks from the system so you have less friction. The H20 class rules allow for an 8:1 downhaul system. The stock system just had a quad block at the tack of the sail and then used the cleats and blocks in the mast base, so you had 8 "throws" of the downhaul line. A cascading system basically takes a 4:1 system and ties a 2:1 system onto it, so you have 4x2=8:1 and you eliminate one or two throws of the line. The problem with the cascading system is that it requires twice as much vertical space on the mast, so you either have to run the adjustment line several feet up the mast or you have to add extra cleats so you can change the position of the adjusting blocks so they don't bottom out. Again, go with the stock system for now, if you get serious about racing see what other folks are doing.
Moving the mast rotation bar above the boom is a personal preference. Adding a positive mast rotation/bungee system is pretty standard for racing since it allows for full rotation downwind. For pleasure sailing, I wouldn't bother with it.
As for the other mods in the pics, one looks like the barber hauler blocks were re-located. This is probably not class legal. The other looks like some multiple purchase on the jib halyard or a remote jib halyard adjustment and this also would not be class legal.
sm -
- Rank: Administrator
- Registered: Jul 19, 2001
- Last visit: Nov 15, 2024
- Posts: 3446
Posted: May 15, 2014 - 10:53 AM
I think you should rig up every single one of those rigging adjustments, don't want to take a chance missing something that might help.
--
Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN
How To Create Your Signature
How To Create Your Own Cool Avatar
How To Display Pictures In The Forums.
-- -
- Rank: Master Chief
- Registered: Jun 20, 2006
- Last visit: May 22, 2024
- Posts: 7089
Posted: May 15, 2014 - 01:20 PM
i miss the simplicity of my h18 and 16
i took a skater/cyclist friend out for his first sail ever monday, he couldn't believe how much spagetti is on my boat, and we didn't even pull out the spinnaker -
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: Jul 20, 2011
- Last visit: Apr 07, 2019
- Posts: 323
Posted: May 15, 2014 - 02:31 PM
Haha, I stumbled into that post only a couple days after I converted my 4 way jib system to a 2 way system to reduce clutter and complexity for my crew. Gonna try to sail a couple hrs today to find the best permanent jib blocks location fore/aft using metal grommets at corners of big tramp pocket.
Agreed - simple is better in my case although I'll prob end up adding the bungee rotation inducer ( I've seen several versions of how that's rigged too ) Is the front bungee two separate pieces clipped to a line on either side of the mast that's strung thru the rotator OR is the front bungee one piece that's run thru a small block in the middle that slips side to side on a loop of line attached to rotator arm?
--
Tim Grover
1996 Hobie Miracle 20
Two Hobie 14's
1983 G-Cat Restored
Memphis TN / North Mississippi
--
Users on-line
This list is based on users active over the last 60 minutes.