Too heavy for single-handing?
http://sandiego.craigslis…/csd/boa/4466424597.html
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Ron
Big Bear Lake, Ca.
1990 Hobie 18 Worlds
1988 Mac 26Dagger
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What's your weigh-in on a Prindle 19?
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Posted: May 16, 2014 - 09:13 AM
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Posted: May 16, 2014 - 09:23 AM
Does singlehanding mean you're going to raise the mast yourself? Pete -
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Posted: May 16, 2014 - 10:41 AM
This is maybe a bit of a rocket.
Pete's point about hoisting the mast by yourself is a good one- it is not easy.
This P19 looks to have the bigger rudders and extended gudgeons that came on the P19-MX, to handle the bigger sails.
This is possibly a very fast boat.
Edited by klozhald on May 16, 2014 - 10:41 AM.
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Sheet In!
Bob
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Prindle 18-2 #244 "Wakizashi"
Prindle 16 #3690 "Pegasus" Sold (sigh)
AZ Multihull Fleet 42 member
(Way) Past Commodore of Prindle Fleet 14
Arizona, USA
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Posted: May 16, 2014 - 01:31 PM
Yeah thats a primary plan. If the family comes along they can help. (Plan-B)
I weigh 220 plus if my wifey comes along add another 135 so was thinking this could be a nice ride but haven’t hoisted this mast before.
Idea: Maybe a crank and cable that attaches to my truck receiver?
Possibly this is just too much boat? I was recommended the Hobie 18 as a good choice for my venue and pondered what one more foot would be?
Edited by rondog on May 16, 2014 - 11:32 AM.
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Ron
Big Bear Lake, Ca.
1990 Hobie 18 Worlds
1988 Mac 26Dagger
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Posted: May 16, 2014 - 02:25 PM
My opinion is that this it is a great boat and a hand full for two people . Mast is a touch difficult due to its length to raise ; we use a self made pulley system that raises from the trailer winch . With anything but mild wind is a brute to handle . Weight of 2 people is required to keep this stable in +12 knot winds . Definately 2 people required to right the boat if you would ever go over , righting bag would be a must. I do want to try mine solo at some point ,but only in light winds .
Good luck in your decision .. a great boat , but power needs to be respected . -
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Posted: May 16, 2014 - 04:31 PM
I have sailed the P-19 for many years ... upgraded to the P-19mx and sailed it for many more years. Excellent boat for someone your size. You will love it. Also, I have raised masts single handedly for years. Did it on my prindle 18, on my P19 and did it on my Tornado. You learn tricks and yes you can adapt poles and cranks. Personally, I would not let that influence my decision. With the upgraded rudders, assuming the boat is in good to fair condition, I don't think $2500 is out of line. I've seen them go for less, and I've seen them go for more. the biggest question is the condition of the main. That style of mylar was famous delaminating (separation of material).
You can also adapt it with a rolling furler on the jib. Which depending upon your skill level, might not be a bad idea.
Good Luck !!
Mark Corby
Edited by turborat on May 16, 2014 - 04:32 PM. -
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Posted: May 16, 2014 - 04:35 PM
One foot can make a vast difference.
This 19 was designed after and is a foot smaller that the old Olympic class Tornado catamaran. It sails differently than the Hobie 18, though the controls are somewhat similar.
If your P19 is the MX, it is even more of a hybrid, and a racing greyhound at that.
Not really a family cat, unless your family races. The Hobie 18 can be the better family cat, fast in its own right, and simpler to rig. Mast is just as heavy as the 19 though. A Prindle 18 would suit you well also (different from the Prindle 18-2).
A tried and true solution involves a winch on the trailer, sometimes on the front mast upright, with a detachable gin pole on the mast to help with leverage. Winch line attaches to the forestay. Search the forums for gin pole installations.
Edited by klozhald on May 16, 2014 - 04:36 PM.
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Sheet In!
Bob
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Prindle 18-2 #244 "Wakizashi"
Prindle 16 #3690 "Pegasus" Sold (sigh)
AZ Multihull Fleet 42 member
(Way) Past Commodore of Prindle Fleet 14
Arizona, USA
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Posted: May 17, 2014 - 08:59 AM
Great info gents! You certainly know your stuff!
Thank You!
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Ron
Big Bear Lake, Ca.
1990 Hobie 18 Worlds
1988 Mac 26Dagger
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Posted: May 17, 2014 - 11:58 AM
As far as the P19 being too much boat depends on the wind conditions you will be sailing in, especially solo. I have soloed a P19, Hobie 20, 18, and Tornado. I like the kick up centerboards and would recommend a roller furling. both nice features to make solo easier. The 19 is a thinner membrane hull and you will need to have much more care as the hobie 18 hulls are bullet proof in comparison, especially if you like to beach it often. The P19 hulls are pretty thin and the gelcoat comes off pretty quick when on sand. If you sail in light conditions often , you move much quicker on the 19. In windy conditions, 14+ you will have more fun solo on the 18. I luved trapping off the wings on a Hobie 18 in windy conditions in the ocean. It's a much more stable and predictable boat, especially in the ocean. If your skill level is in question at all, I would think you would be happier with a H18. On a windy day, the P19 solo will send most people back to parking lot thinking sailing might not be their thing. It can be like riding a bull. -
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Posted: May 17, 2014 - 10:29 PM
Bob, I wanted to ask you about the boat being too fast. Is that possible? What exactly do you mean by the cat being a rocket? Couldn't you just sheet out or in to find a comfy speed?
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Ron
Big Bear Lake, Ca.
1990 Hobie 18 Worlds
1988 Mac 26Dagger
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Posted: May 18, 2014 - 11:20 AM
My wife and I sail our Prindle 18-2 (similar to the P19) in the SF bay as our main sailing venue. What we do to depower the boat while on the water no matter point of sail is to sail with center boards up, and over due the downhull. Taking the centerboards up decreases the amount of wind power that goes into the overturning moment of the boat, downside is the boat will crab more. But that is not a big deal if there is a lot of maneuvering room. Over doing the down hull makes the main sail flatter decreasing it's power. These two things do a lot to take out the power from the wind to the boat. You can also "over rotate" the mast which will make the flow over the main sail more turbulent decreasing speed.
We love sailing the Prindle 18-2 but we have to remember that it is designed to go fast. Since it is a hybrid of the P18 and P19 I can only imagine the power in the P19 being more.
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Andrew
Prindle 18-2 1988
Alameda, CA
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Posted: May 18, 2014 - 07:39 PM
Rondog...I sail a P-19 and it's a great boat. The Prindle 18-2 and 19 were designed after the Tornado. The Tornado had a 10' beam, the 18-2 and 19 have a 8.5' beam. The P-19 is actually 19'2" in length and "I think" weighs around 380#.
I weigh 170 and solo all the time with no problems and actually enjoy sailing it solo. As someone stated above, as long as the wind doesn't go above 10-12 it's easy to handle. With you weighing 220 you will have no trouble. Once the wind comes up it is a blast to sail when you can double trap, the boat comes alive! Now this is all dependent on your catamaran sailing skills, I'm assuming you've sailed cat for awhile? If not then the P-19 is not for someone just starting out. Once the winds come up the boat can be a handfull. I was out this past Saturday on Galveston Bay and "Windfinder" showed it was blowing south at 17 kts gusting to 24kts. You better be on top of your game once the wind gets that gusty. The boat performs very well and you don't have to worry a lot about it pitch-polling. I drive the leeward bow with the waterline about 4-5" from the top of the deck. Many people have the bows way to high, the P-19 tends to be a little tail heavy. Don't get me wrong, any cat will pitch-pole if your beam-reaching or broad-reaching and don't get off the throttle, but the bow displacement on the 19 and 18-2 helps a lot.
The boat was designed to sail with a crew of two but when conditions are mild, why not sail it solo on the days you can't find crew. I've very cautious when solo and don't push it too hard as I cannot right it if I capsize. I'm working on a righting bag right now, I found a used small boat boom vang with snap shackles on both blocks to use with the bag. I do sometimes miss my P-16 as there have been times I get to the beach with no crew and it's too windy, the boat stays on the trailer. The good thing, if it's that windy, others are usually needing crew also so I can jump on another boat.
Another good boat that has not been mentioned is the Supercat 19
I love my P-19 -
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Posted: May 19, 2014 - 04:43 AM
If you want an excellent starter boat check out the prindle 18-2 on craigslist Pensacola , fl.
This boat use to be mine and is in showroom condition. Sails are like brand new and I personally refinished the hulls & transoms. This boat was from Maryland. The sails are Mylar not Kevlar.
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Doug Klem
Pensacola , Fl.
Blade F16
Prindle 18-2 w/spin
Prindle 18-2 x 3
Prindle 19 MX
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Posted: May 19, 2014 - 09:39 AM
Just a little clarification. Back in the day, long before the MX19, the class went to the improved rudders and extended gudgeons. Most of us who raced these did that modification to improve handling. Those rudder changes had nothing to do with the MX19.
I have had 2 prindle 19's over the years, but currently have a Hobie 18. The reason for that is because I could not find a Prindle 19. Loved the 19 with the kick up boards.
Good luck with your cat sailing future. -
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Posted: May 19, 2014 - 11:34 AM
The more basic a cat is, the easier it is to sail. The opposite is true for a throughbred like the P19. Correct sail trim, balance and helm are more critical and less forgiving. You have to get it right. There are lots of controls, and being overwhelmed by them is not the foundation for a great sailing day.
The P19 accelerates fast. You literally have to hang on. The more basic cats go back on their haunches for a second before a big gust takes them forward. A high performance cat will simply and suddenly accelerate. You're sitting on a rocket. You have to hang on.
Does this make sense?
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Sheet In!
Bob
_/)_____/)_/)____/)____/)_____/)/)__________/)__
Prindle 18-2 #244 "Wakizashi"
Prindle 16 #3690 "Pegasus" Sold (sigh)
AZ Multihull Fleet 42 member
(Way) Past Commodore of Prindle Fleet 14
Arizona, USA
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Posted: May 19, 2014 - 12:06 PM
10-4. Not a good fist cat. Like learning to drive in a Ferarri. It can be done, but you'll likely crash.
Not to forget about the rigging/derigging/righting problems as others have pointed out.
Thanks for the insight everyone!
Ron
Edited by rondog on May 19, 2014 - 10:12 AM.
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Ron
Big Bear Lake, Ca.
1990 Hobie 18 Worlds
1988 Mac 26Dagger
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Posted: May 29, 2014 - 01:33 PM
I purchased an '88 P19 on SanDiego's craigslist this Winter and it's a lot of fun. So there may be more useful information about the boat here:
http://thebeachcats.com/forums/viewtopic/topic/14803
Raising the mast single handed would be impossible for me but with a winch and gin pole it would probably work. There's even a winch installed on my trailer that I plan to eventually use for that. I like the boat for it's size, simplicity and speed but it's a handful whenever winds pick up. I have had my son with me once but don't plan to take the wife out until I know this boat a lot better.
There's another listing for a P16 that looks in good shape for $1,800
http://sandiego.craigslist.org/nsd/boa/4479678523.html
Edited by marekli on May 29, 2014 - 01:50 PM.
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Marek
1992 Prindle 19
1981 Prindle 16
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Posted: Jun 28, 2014 - 11:33 PM
I bought a P-19 last year, and have capsized, uh, sailed it in SF bay, Tomales Bay, Lake Berryessa and the delta. It's my second boat, if you count a Cal 20 that I sailed a few times.
I love it, and crash it regularly, I weigh 150, and am not experienced, but am learning the fun, uh, hard way!
Righting it is easy with a 300 lb crew weight, I have a righting pole and bag that I have yet to use, but haven't single hand (capsized) sailed it yet.
Anyway, what I want to say is that I rigged up a pulley on the trailer that is 3' higher than the existing one, and it will pull the mast up easily, and doing it myself is a piece of cake. I just have to run my checklist and it's all good. The pin in the mast bottom, the trapeze lines tied to the spinnaker cleats to keep the mast from going sideways, and the jib halyard tied to the rope in the pulley.
It goes up and down easily and safely, though I use a crutch to hold the end of the mast up, or a person, it would be better to have something off the back of the trailer.
I have a Mama Bob at the mast head, and a roller jib. I intend to do some touring around the bay and delta as well as any lakes that I manage to get to.
I clocked it at 25 MPH on the GPS once, and it is definitely a handful on a reach in 3' chop, but man, what a ride!
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Posted: Jul 01, 2014 - 08:15 PM
I agree with those that say the Prindle 19 is quite a handfull in the hands of an expert and a monster for a nubee but having said that, you can learn to sail it in baby-steps and become quite proficient depending on your desire and time-on-water. If you can get a good deal on this cat then go for it. I don't think you would be the least disappointed!!! I've sailed the Prindle 18-2 and the Prindle 19 and they are outstanding boats. I have single-handed the 18-2 and I only weigh 160 lbs. and it's a joy but it's safer with a crew should you capsize because you do need the extra weight for recovery. Checkout the YouTube video of me sailing a 19 with Lance off the coast of Ventura. (Prindle 19 Sailing the Channel Islands with Bob) -
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Posted: Jul 01, 2014 - 08:17 PM
By the way, I've had a devil of a time raising the mast until I read the handbook that raising the mast is a two-person task!!!
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