Ready to buy a cat. I have done lots of sailing on many resorts. typically solo.
No issues with tacking etc.
I am 60 weigh in at 260 shooting for 230.
Sail in north Florida on a couple of large lakes. Trailer to the ocean is in the mix.
I cannot leave cat on the beach.
I'm looking at H16 currently. Also considering a Dart 16. Dart 18 out of production. i cannot find any for sale.
Everybody tells me H16 used is way to go. I do NOT see that many for sale except for the 20 year old hulls. I would rather spend more and have peace of mind.
So Dart16 vs Hobie16 ? No boom on Dart. A plus or not really an issue?
1990 Prindle 18 for sale on this site. Stated to be in great shape but again 24 yr old hull. If good shape P18 a good choice?
I will be renting a P18 at Calema Watersports in Pt. Canaveral to see how they sail.
This also posted on the Beachcat sale site
http://www.thebeachcats.com/classifieds/catamarans-for-sale/p13371-2008-nacra-500-lots-of-extras.html
Looks like a great boat for money. of course solo the spinakker is a no go so can I simply remove till I have crew or what. Narca seems solid from reviews. Good choice for me ?
Lastly I found this
http://www.thebeachcats.com/classifieds/catamarans-for-sale/p13303-2012-hobie-16.html
For about $1,000 more I can get new.
I have tossed this around for quite a while.
I know I do NOT want a Wave or Getaway.
I want fast fun but nowhere ready for something like an F18.
No plans on formal race so not concerned about meeting spec etc.
Just not clear on which make or 16 vs 18 feet.
Oh yes are daggerboards a pain in the a@* ?
I suppose its like Ford vs Chevy.
I'll most probably like anything as compared to no sailboat but would like some direction as far as size and make.
I had my heart set on a H17 as a bit larger than 16 but have read it cannot handle my weight ??
Thanks for your help
Which cat ?
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Posted: Jun 10, 2014 - 12:20 PM
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Posted: Jun 10, 2014 - 01:04 PM
When you rent the P-18, ask them to drop the mast & then you throw it up (since you do not have mast up beach storage). That is the test for you (60 years) between a 16 & 18. Pete
Edited by pbegle on Jun 10, 2014 - 01:06 PM. -
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Posted: Jun 10, 2014 - 02:01 PM
drjay9051, welcome to TheBeachcats.com.
You've obviously put a lot of thought into this and given us good information to help, one thing I'm not clear is if you plan to sail mostly solo or not?
You and I are about the same size and the 16 foot boats are fine if you are going solo, but will be overloaded with anything but a small child on board. Doesn't mean you can't still sail overloaded but the boat won't perform as designed.
If you like the P18 you rent check this one out, owned by a friend of mine.
http://www.thebeachcats.c…457-1982-prindle-18.html
Good luck and keep us updated on your search.
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Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN
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Posted: Jun 10, 2014 - 06:40 PM
You sound like a good candidate for a 16' if you are mostly solo. H16 or P16 would be fine. I have no experience with the Darts. I would say find the best quality boat in you price range and go with it. If you plan to have crew often plan on an 18 foot boat. Pete made a great point about raising the mast. You will need help or some kind of raising system for an 18 if you are solo.
I grew up on a H16 but moved up to an 18 for more room and crew capacity.
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Scott,
‘92 H18 w/SX wings
‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
‘96/‘01/‘14 Hobie Waves
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Posted: Jun 10, 2014 - 08:42 PM
I had a 17 for a while and for me at 190 it was a solo boat. It just doesn't have much buoyancy. I loved my 17 for solo. I also prefer a boat with a jib. And the dagger boards on 17 are difficult to deal with. It's too bad Hobie doesn't make the H18 with wings anymore, that was a great boat. -
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Posted: Jun 10, 2014 - 08:44 PM
That's a great boat for what you want. It's new, you don't have to rebuild, fix,McGyver...& they are a ton of fun. I have the older model, N5.0. Nearly the same boat, but with some modern upgrades, I think it has a self tacking jib. Big hulls, not nearly as prone to pitchpole, & rides rough water well, something to think about for the ocean.
We drive the crap out of ours, in some pretty rough water, haven't broken it yet, & you have to work to make it pitchpole. We drive it double trapped,(360lb) it handles that weight well. They are also very simple to setup, you will like the roller furling
If you're not worried about the fastest & highest pointing, boardless/boomless makes for low stress sailing, especially if you bring newbies along. The loss of pointing is over rated. Move forward & bury the lee bow & they do OK, the loss is not huge.
The spin can be removed, but after you get comfortable, you'll be able to handle it.
The Dart is also a fine boat. A retired gent down the bay from me has one. The mast is shorter/lighter than my N5.7. They do really well in big air, they have smaller sail area & a tiny jib. I'm looking at a Dart 15 for solo in big wind days...just figuring out where to hide a 4th cat, the dock is getting crowded.
Whatever you buy, get the owner to set it up with you there, that's worth hours of reading the manual.Preferably set up on the water & sail it.
Edited by Edchris177 on Jun 10, 2014 - 08:46 PM.
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Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
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Posted: Jun 11, 2014 - 01:37 PM
I'm inclined to agree with Ed, the Nacra 500 seems like it would be a good choice for you. No boards and no boom are a big plus
for recreational. It is also 16' 8" with bouyant hulls so should carry more than the hobie 16. The rudder design on the Nacra's is much improved over the Prindles so that is a plus as well. I had a Mystere 5.0 which is pretty much the same design and I could drive it hard with 600lbs on board (myself and 2 grown sons) and still get good performance in moderate wind. The elevated platform on the Hobie is smaller than the 500 which could be an issue with extra crew.
One down side of the skeg hulls is that they don't move too well in sand compared to the hobie 16 banana hulls which you can spin and drag around in the sand at will. With the skeg hulls you pretty much have to lift the rear of the boat and spin/slide it on the front of the hulls. If you don't have to move it far or if you have beach wheels then this will not be an issue.
I liked this design so much that I was looking for a newer Nacra 500 to replace my Mystere. I didn't have any luck finding a used 500 in my area but while I was looking I stumbled on to a nice 570 so I went with the 18.5' version instead. As someone else mentioned, stepping the mast on the 18's is more of challenge than the 16's. I'm about your size and 5 years younger. I could step the mast on the Mystere by hand (and by myself if I needed to) but with the 570 I need a winch and a helper!
Good luck in your search.
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Steve - Texas Gulf Coast
91 Mystere 5.0 (sold)
04 Nacra 570 (sold)
08 Hobie Wave
00 Taipan 4.9
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Posted: Jun 25, 2014 - 08:15 AM
Hello Drjay,
I think you have a good tight list. I arrived at a similar list of Cats in my search. My list came down to 5 cats: Hobie 16, Supercat 17, Dart 18, Taipan 4.9., Nacra 5.0 & Mystere 5.0. my cost goal was 2000. or less ( which in the end ruled out Taipan). Nacra 5.0 & Mystere 5.0 just were not available in the area at the time.
In the end I purchased a Dart 18 base on price, condition, location & extras. It was the best value of all the boats at the time so any of them were in the acceptable range.
Boat to boat, at 60yrs. I would consider weight and your ability to assemble, rig, launch and maneuver on beach, ramp or grass. It is best to be self sufficient but I have never met a sailor that would not lend a hand.
Boards or no boards? : one less thing to deal with. All boats on my list were boardless accept for the Taipan 4.9. You will not point as well until it's really blowing without boards. Of all the boats I researched boardless, the Supercat had the best opinions on pointing for boardless because the forward hulls are part of the lift design ( they called shared lift). H16 & Dart will point better in higher winds as you bring more of the sail balance back on the rudders, as the wind goes up, boat rises, you move back , more lift effect on less hull area and the more the rudders do the lifting. Super cat was the opposit, dig your bow in and you gained lift. This explains the big bows. I really wanted one.
Boom or no boom?: Clearly will be less painfull to be hit with a batten than a boom. Dart 18 & Supercat have no booms and people that have them like it. Again , one less thing to deal with, simplicity, no boom, no outhaul.
Weight: h16 - 320lbs. Supercat 17- 335lbs. Dart18- 285lbs. Dart is the easiest to maneuver dry by weight. I can handle my dart on my own with beach wheels and a launch ramp. 35lbs less than a H16.
Sail area: h16 - 218 sqft. Supercat 17- 234 sqft. Dart18- 175 sqft. Dart is light on the sail area so if you are in a light wind area , I would not recommend it unless your a beginner.
check out sailboat data: http://sailboatdata.com
Extras..: cannot mention enough all the other stuff you need that adds up. Trailer, beach wheels, trapeze lines , trapeze harness, these all add up.
Parts availability: Hobie & Supercat are well supported Cat brands in the US still being manufactured. Dart 18 & Taipan you will need to look hard & out of the country. Dart18 is a large one design class in Europe but not in US. Used parts are harder to come by for Dart 18 & Taipan because they are not as common.
Dart 18 Shameless Plug: all of this said, I have only sailed 4 catamaran models: Prindle 18, Hobie 16, Dart 18 & Hobie wave. Of all of these, I like the dart the most and is currently what I own. Why? Simplicity. Lightest boat on my list for the cost without going to exotic materials. Great for 1 or 2 up. No boards to deal with, No boom , no out haul ...... you get it . I consider myself a beginner and this boat is a good match for my environment and needs. It carries a smaller sail plan which keeps it manageable (good winds where I live in RI so not an issue).
By Portsmouth ratings it is nearly as fast as a Hobie. I would argue at 15 20knts + of wind it will equal or take the hobie 16 with a more efficient Hull design and less weight. H16 D-PN: 76.0 Dart 18: D-PN76.3
I will add that the Hobie 16 is just one ugly boat to me . Two bananas held together by pipe fittings ( can't wait to hear from the hobie guys....). H16 designed in 1969, there have been advancements. Dart18, a Rodney March design from 1975 based on the Tornado class, still looks good today, big one design class in Europe.
H16 makes up for it shortfalls with lots of sail area. Also, Hobie sailors love them and if you want to race affordable, huge one design class and that is all that matters. Supercat & dart 18 have no large class representation.
goodluck, get that cat..... whichever one you decide on.
