So the wife and I are very close to pulling the trigger on a used Hobie 16. This will be the first catamaran for us (though we've sailed them a bunch with friends). So my question is about sail numbers. For the most part H16 sail numbers seem to go up as the construction date gets later. This one, however, is a ~1992 boat with a 3-digit sail number. What does that mean? I am thinking that it may have once been a race boat and that these are the old race sails, but not sure.
Thanks!
Hobie 16 Sail Number
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Posted: Feb 04, 2015 - 06:58 PM
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Posted: Feb 04, 2015 - 07:31 PM
It may or may not mean anything.
If those numbers are original to the sail, then those sails are VERY old. The sails would probably be Mckibben sails.
If they are Hobie branded, someone changed the number. There could be many different reasons for that. There is a color chart around that can help you date the sails by the color pattern.
If they are branded by any manufacture other than Hobie, they will not be class legal. That may or may not matter to you.
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Greenville SC
Offering sails and other go fast parts for A-class catamarans
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Posted: Feb 05, 2015 - 08:54 AM
I know the 18s had some very low digit sail numbers for nationals and worlds events. There are also some that order their custom number when they purchase new hobie sails.
My first Hobie 16 came with the most beautiful set of Keoke sails. This was a boat purchased around 2001 with sails from the mid 70s and aside from a brand new racing set, those were easily the nicest condition sails I've had. So even if they are old, they may still be good...
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Posted: Feb 05, 2015 - 10:19 AM
A three digit mainsail number for an early 1990's Hobie 16 most likely means it is a mylar sail. There was a very brief period in the early 90's where Hobie experimented with vertical cut mylar sails for the Hobie 16. I don't know why, but for some reason, they used 3-digit sail numbers for these sails (the standard Dacron sails from this era would have had numbers right around the 100,000 mark).
If the seams of the sail cloth on the mainsail run vertically, then you have a mylar sail. If the seams run horizontally and are integrated into the batten pockets, then you have a horizontal cut Dacron sail (the standard sail material). This of course all assumes it is even a Hobie OEM sail. Check near the tack fitting (downhaul grommet), there should be a sailmaker's placard which would say whether it's a Hobie sail or not.
The problem with the mylar sails is that they had serious delamination issues. The adhesive which holds the mylar scrim to the Dacron backing would fail and the two plys would separate making the sail much weaker and unable to hold proper shape. Unless the sail is in immaculate condition (i.e., unused) it is likely delaminated and all but useless. I would certainly take this into consideration when looking at an older Hobie with mylar sails.
If the sails are Dacron, then the sail number either indicates that the sails are very old (not original to the boat), or the owner chose a custom sail number which is another possibility. It's not likely that they would be sails from a Nationals or Worlds boat since those sails typically have 2-digit numbers.
In any case, the sail number itself is less important than the actual overall condition of the sails. Check thoroughly for rips, broken stitches, broken batten protectors, stains, and delamination when purchasing a used set of sails.
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Posted: Feb 05, 2015 - 11:27 AM
nam,
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A picture of the sail would probably clear things up. Check if the sail is an actual Hobie sail, if it's a factory sail it will have a fairly large Hobie logo patch at the corner of the main and jib. If it's an aftermarket wail the number doesn't mean anything.
What does the seller say about the sail?
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Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
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Posted: Feb 05, 2015 - 12:30 PM
There were also the "formula" edition boats that were available briefly during the early '90's. These boats were exactly the same as the standard boats except that they had white powder coating on the metal parts and the sails had a funky design where there was a series of large windows that went vertically up the sail. The sails were the standard Dacron construction and the windows were standard vinyl, just larger than normal and more of them. These sails also had a 3-digit number.
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Posted: Feb 05, 2015 - 03:19 PM
Wow, thank you all. I've been watching this site for ~2 years so I knew there was a lot of knowledge but, wow! Thanks.
Anyways my concern was two fold: first, that the sails may not have come with the boat making me wonder about the rest of the parts and pieces and two, the age of the sails. I've been around boats enough to know that a 20+ year old Mylar sail is either already delaminated or about to delaminate as Dogboy says. With all that you have posted here and what the seller has told me I am now of the assumption that:
- The sails are in fact original to the boat
- That it is one of the Mylar vertical cut sails (I can see the vertical panels in the pictures)
- That the fact that the sails are not yet delaminated tells me that the boat has probably been lightly used but,
- That I will be in for a new suit PDQ after buying it.
Would you generally agree?
Anyway, I have an image of the main but not sure where/how to post it. The image is on my computer, not on the web.
nam -
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Posted: Feb 05, 2015 - 05:50 PM
I wouldn't assume the mylar is not delaminated solely based on a picture. The only way you would know for sure is by looking at the sail in person. If it is delaminated, you will either see small "pockets" of delamination all over the sail, or if it's really bad, you will see entire sheets of mylar separating from the dacron. Sometimes when the sails got really bad, people would just cut off the loose mylar.
If the mylar is still good, then I would say you are probably correct that it is an indication that the boat was lightly used. And if the sails are still good, I would say you should certainly expect to get a few years out of them. If they have started to delaminate (most likely), then the clock is ticking and you probably want to factor for a new set of sails sooner rather than later.
sm
