When I go out I carry a vhf radio set to coast guard frequency in the event I can't self rescue. All measures are taken to self rescue as I really hate to encumber the CG. My dive knife with the blunt tip can serve as a tool I already have, in the event grease doesn't work. The goal: safely sail a Hobie Cat 18 as cheaply as possible.
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Goodsailing
Laser-Standard Rig (Sold 6/15)
H18 (Sold 7/15)
Building 19' Tacking Outrigger
Balt-Wash Area
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Referbing Older Hobie 18- Righting line.
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Posted: Feb 18, 2015 - 05:03 PM
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Posted: Feb 18, 2015 - 06:37 PM
You really should pop over to the Hobie 18 forum at the Hobie site for some of your questions. A lot of what you've asked has been discussed in great detail over there by some folks that are very familiar with the H18. Definitely dealing with the old style H18 rudder system is one of those topics. That said, here's what I have done to get the rudder system to work well. First thing you want to do is make sure the system is lubed properly. You want to carefully apply grease (I use automotive bearing grease) to the roller pin in the upper casting. On the lower casting, apply grease to the surface of the hook/latch that engages the roller pin. You want to use grease so it doesn't wash away, not too much though or i will become a dirty sandy mess.
Just adding grease will probably make a noticable improvement. If you want to take it a step further, loosen the large plastic screw on the lower casting. This is the screw which sets the preload on the hook/latch. You want to back it off almost all the way so the upper casting just barely "clicks" in. Then use 3/16" or 1/4" bungee wrapped around the rudder and rudder pin to hold the rudder down. With the system set up like this, the upper casting is really just keeping the rudder in position and the bungee cord does the majority of the holding down.
The original rudder system on the H18 can be a bit troublesome, but it can also be made to work. We've had our H18 since new in 1985 and I made the original rudder castings function well enough with these mods that the rudders will kick up reliably when hitting bottom, even when beaching in the surf. There are some other mods you can do too which involve filing the lower casting slightly.
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Posted: Feb 19, 2015 - 08:02 AM
I've been there for answers and other places. Most all my questions have been answered thus far. I'll circle back here if needed. No one answered: sculling oar as righting pole. Nor is there anything on the web about sculling a cat out to the the wind area and using the pole for righting? I'll leave that to experimentation on the water. Perhaps then I can provide answers.
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Laser-Standard Rig (Sold 6/15)
H18 (Sold 7/15)
Building 19' Tacking Outrigger
Balt-Wash Area
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Posted: Feb 19, 2015 - 08:53 AM
I would stay away of aluminum tubes and get an old and cheap windsurf mast.
The first righting pole I made was like this one, made with an aluminum tube, it broke at the first trial on the water. I also found two additional problemas: in order to avoid back and forth swinging you need to have support from both sides, a righting line from the center of the front beam is not enough. Also when you walk above the tube, at the center of the tramp, it hurt your feet, specially when hoisting the mast.
For a hobie gary righting pole, you need a shorter pole and maybe an aluminum one might work. -
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Posted: Feb 19, 2015 - 09:07 AM
I've seen your righting system. Yesterday I saw a frame contraption on Youtube that resembled a bed frame that swung out from stern. It was connected near front xbar or possibly on bar and rested under the tramp. The sailor swung it out perpendicular, jumped on it and righted the boat. It was interesting to note how far he climbed out along the horizontal beam before the boat started moving. I wish I could find the vid but it's buried in one of the cat sailing vids etc. It was a square with x beams going from corner to corner. This was perhaps the coolest righting system I've seen.
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Goodsailing
Laser-Standard Rig (Sold 6/15)
H18 (Sold 7/15)
Building 19' Tacking Outrigger
Balt-Wash Area
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Posted: Feb 19, 2015 - 09:19 AM
where will you sail?
will you usually have crew?
will other catamarans be around>?
I just watched this video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PredhB7nDI
i would NOT (edit) want to do that to my board/trunk area on my current boat, and can't really recall how hardy my h18 was enough to say - but it's hard to believe that doesn't risk crushing boat or board well
(Personally) before i added hardware under the boat (which i am not a fan of at all)
I would try solo righting with just a line (a 200lb guy should be able to right an h18 solo with good technique and in good conditions)
then I would try righting the boat with crew
then with a bag (solo and w crew)
Edited by MN3 on Feb 19, 2015 - 12:26 PM. -
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Posted: Feb 19, 2015 - 09:30 AM
No need for a righting pole if you can't get to the place where the wind is. From Boston To Miami, unless you own beach front property you're limited to clubs with water access or boat ramps, which are typically limited to power boating not sailing. Try getting out of Hillsboro inlet in FL or via channel along side Chesapeake Bay Bridge at Sandy Point Park. Hence when you put in at the boat ramp, where space to sail is limited, and where it is typically sheltered from wind, you have to get from there out to the wind. Hence you need alternative power. A motor or an oar or get towed out. (I'm not carrying motor as then you have to register with the STATE plus you have the problem of holding battery etc and interference with tiller etc. ) Now I'm not sure if a sculling oar would work, but if you're talking righting pole. Why not use the sculling oar as a righting pole or vice versa. We know the pole works, but can you scull an 18' hobie cat with any amount of success? Just need oar lock on stern xbar I would imagine. Perhaps even rope would work.
Here's another example of righting pole, but in this case, you couldn't use this to scull. No blade and it's attached to the boat.
http://www.hobiecat.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=14627
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Goodsailing
Laser-Standard Rig (Sold 6/15)
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Building 19' Tacking Outrigger
Balt-Wash Area
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Posted: Feb 19, 2015 - 11:04 AM
there is year round mast up storage in delray - i hear it's very cheap too -
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Posted: Feb 19, 2015 - 11:24 AM
This video you mean?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rm5FIkmx8Ao
He forgot to uncleat the main, that's why he's way out and jumping....
The frame is a bit too much in my opinion. A simpler A frame would probably work, but again, I'm pretty sure these tubes below the tramp are a pain in the a$$. I store mine along the tramp but just a few inches away from one hull. -
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Posted: Feb 19, 2015 - 11:56 AM
This guy solo rights his Hobie 18 pretty easily. Unrolling and attaching righting pole in rough choppy windy conditions looks like it would take quite some time to deploy tho.
http://youtu.be/NwZZX2ka820
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Tim Grover
1996 Hobie Miracle 20
Two Hobie 14's
1983 G-Cat Restored
Memphis TN / North Mississippi
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Posted: Feb 19, 2015 - 12:27 PM
what he has on the ends of the pole look different, and what does he do with the board while he gets this system set up?
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Posted: Feb 19, 2015 - 12:30 PM
In my case all the lines are already in place and kept in place with bungees, deployment is very fast. It is a bit harder to recover the pole from under the boat. Not terrible but not as easy as deploying. -
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Posted: Feb 19, 2015 - 01:55 PM
Wow, I hadn't seen that rig before, seems a little much.
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Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN
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Posted: Feb 19, 2015 - 02:04 PM
In that video the guy had the "Gary's Solo Right" system, Gary Friesen of the On The Wire Catalina Island trips fame actually sold those as a complete system for a while.
He built them from a wooden oar that was sealed and even had grippy tape to walk on. There were different designs for different boats. The one for the Hobie 18 had kind of an L shaped plastic piece on the end, the only pressure on the hull was pressing on the bottom, the system wasn't levering the boat up by the daggerboard trunk like it might appear.
Hard to describe I'll try to find a picture.
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Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN
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Posted: Feb 19, 2015 - 02:09 PM
That's a guy that made his own version of the Solo Right, the angles and results are the same but it takes him longer to rig because it wasn't as carefully setup as the original Gary's model. That's why Gary stopped making them, everyone thought they could make one themselves cheaper. Beachcat sailors can really be cheap bastards sometimes.
The daggerboard stays in place, the righting system doesn't insert deeply into the daggerboard trunk.
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Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
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Posted: Feb 19, 2015 - 04:58 PM
That's the one. Look how far out he is. He's at least 180lbs if not 200lbs. Nice system. I think there would be some problems at 200lbs and a water bag. Better go with crew for testing. I'll be sailing the Chesapeake with not too many around, especially this spring. Wet suit weather etc.
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Goodsailing
Laser-Standard Rig (Sold 6/15)
H18 (Sold 7/15)
Building 19' Tacking Outrigger
Balt-Wash Area
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Posted: Feb 19, 2015 - 05:30 PM
From another thread on here:
ramstadt
BTW, despite my being new to cats, I have had a situation where the paddle got me out of the harbor and into the open water. The winds were light and coming from directly ahead of me. The paddle was more than enough in that instance. Actually, I was amazed at how well the paddle does work with a cat.
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Goodsailing
Laser-Standard Rig (Sold 6/15)
H18 (Sold 7/15)
Building 19' Tacking Outrigger
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Posted: Feb 20, 2015 - 03:25 AM
You shouldn't need a righting pole and a water bag (or crew), just make a long enough pole. The gary style can be shorter, because it starts further out an because you have all your weight out o the water. But if you don't uncleat the sheets you'll be righting a tank.. About a paddle, yes it's good to have one, i have a telescopic one inside my tramp bag. Using the righting pole doesnt seem practical. -
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Posted: Feb 20, 2015 - 06:35 AM
Not suggesting rowing with just a pole?
Objectives:
1. Propel boat to wind area from ramp
a. Don't use a motor
b. Use oar, a sculling oar probably 9'-10' long oar.
2. Right boat with righting pole
a. Use the sculling oar as righting pole
Conclusion: One stick of wood might be used to propel the boat, and as a righting pole.
A short collapsible oar will not work for sculling or righting pole.
A long sculling oar could also be used for poling, in skinny water, or to push off, or prevent crashing into dirt or even used to guide boat between two piers getting away from the ramp. It could be use to tie two cats together for party boat etc.
We know a pole works for righting, if it is even needed for 200lb person. We don't know if sculling oar would work effectively enough on cat to get you where you wanted to go. I'm thinking rope as oar lock at stern dead eye location.
Here's an example of sculling.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmHNnA--Mmk
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Goodsailing
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Building 19' Tacking Outrigger
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Posted: Feb 20, 2015 - 08:21 AM
I see.. I thought you just wanted to put a paddle in one end of the pole.
It doesn't look very effective, except for the real gondolieri... I guess it might deserve a trial if you think its worth it.
In my experience when you need to paddle it is normally for short time, either to reach a buoy or to move forward without wind, in which case it is usually intermittently, as wind picks up and disappears again. So in such situations you want a handy paddle, not something complicated to setup and store. You might face the need to paddle for hours but then you're screwed anyway.. no matter what you use.. But it shouldn't happen often.. if at all...
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