Thanks so much for your help thus far...
OK.. Now the mast...
I got the mast off the trailer and put it on some saw horses. I lifted from the top of the mast to elevate it and low a behold water came out a hole like Secretariat taking a piss after winning the triple crown. I'm pretty adept at riveting and caulking but my question this time is about what I don't know...
What is in the mast? Is there any foam in there that can be pulled out and replaced? What is recommended to getting it dried out. Do I need to remove both ends, dry out then seal everything up?
Also, I notice the bolt that holds the mast rotator (old one with block) has play. There also appears some opening there around the bolt. It could be caulked. Should I put the new rotator there before sealing etc. Do you even need a rotator?
Also, should the 3/16" hole in the mast base, the one that water came out be sealed or should there always be a drain hole there?
What are those round plastic disks on the diamond spreaders. I presume to protect the sail from hitting the posts. One is busted. Are they necessary or should I get another one? Looks like I might have to take the wire off to slide it on the wire, unless they have ones that you can just punch on through a slit.
Oh, I have a pool, so no sense dunking until the ice is gone, and after I seal it..
Thanks again..
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Referbing Older Hobie cat 18- Water in the Mast
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Posted: Feb 10, 2015 - 02:05 PM
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Posted: Feb 10, 2015 - 03:35 PM
gs, it has been fun watching you learn on this website, the key word being learn, your attitude has been great so far and that helps tremendously when learning, we've all been there.
The mast needs to be sealed tight, no water in if possible, but if it does get in there needs to be a drain hole, one that can be plugged with some type of rubber plug for easy unplugging. Take the mast down to a body of water and float it, mark all the points of bubble origin and seal with silicone caulk. If you flip the boat and the mast fills with water the boat will turtle on you, if you are in shallow water you run the risk of snapping the mast, and righting the boat with the mast full of water will require the services of a power boat, we call that "the walk of shame". With the mast sealed it will act as a float keeping the boat on its side while you swim around and un-cleat the main sheet and jib sheet.
The Prindles have a grommet in the center of the tramp just behind the mast for a righting line, just tie a figure 8 knot, feed line through grommet from underneath, tie another knot close to tramp to stop line sliding back through, tie overhand knots every 12 " in righting line all the way to the end, loop line and stow in tramp pocket, simple but effective.
If I remember correctly, the H18's have a foam plug and it should be located above the mast rotation bolt hole to prevent water from filling the mast....
http://www.thebeachcats.c…pictures?g2_itemId=38236
...you might want to check out your plug but it will be a project of a few hrs. Also keep in mind that rivets tend to leak in the center where the pin pulled through before it snapped off and need to be sealed.
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Posted: Feb 10, 2015 - 03:44 PM
PS, the round plastic disks on the spreaders are sail protectors, stop chaffing of the sail against the spreaders.
http://www.murrays.com/28-0285.html
Edited by the-renovator on Feb 10, 2015 - 03:50 PM. -
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Posted: Feb 10, 2015 - 04:26 PM
I have to dry it out first. Should I knock off the top and bottom plugs, remove any foam, let it air out, replace NEW foam, reseal plugs, caulk all fitting then put it in the water....to check for leaks...
Do they make foam plugs for this...
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Posted: Feb 10, 2015 - 04:28 PM
Good the sail protectors are slotted so no need for taking wires apart
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Posted: Feb 10, 2015 - 05:03 PM
[quote=goodsailing]
This advice gets given a lot and maybe it works for some folks but to me it's just adding to the problem. I did this with a Hobie 18 mast once and sure enough found leak points (at the comptip joint and at some rivets, pretty much the only places that can leak) and as I'm watching the bubbles come OUT I realize that means more water is going IN to the mast. Now I have the problem you describe getting the water out.
You can see the places where the mast can leak, just seal them all.
The mast I'm describing above I could never get all the water out until I removed the mast base and gouged out the plug. This wasn't an easy operation, I don't know what that plug is made of but whatever it is was nearly indestructible and of course it's way up inside the mast, I used a sharpened piece of rebar to hack it to pieces.
At the top of the mast it depends on if you have a comptip? if so there isn't anything to do up there except make sure all rivets and the joint are sealed. If you don't then you could remove the mast head casting but I'm pretty sure there is another one of those plugs at the hounds.
Also, remember you really only have to seal the parts of the mast that will end up in the water when you are on your side and the mast didn't come with a drain at the mast base, someone put that in because they were having water problems.
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1992 Hobie 18
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Posted: Feb 10, 2015 - 05:24 PM
This drawing is for an 18 SX mast, but it is basically the same configuration for the standard length mast as well.
http://www.hobiecat.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=53182
If you don't have a comptip, then there is just a single plug at the top and no plugs/foam at the mast tang. The bolt for the otator bar goes through one of the plugs at the base of the mast and that is what seals up the bolt hole. There is an aluminum plate between the two plugs.
The easiest way to drain the mast if it has water in the main aluminum section is to remove the screws for the sail feeder and let the water drain through those holes. Then re-install the screws with silicone.
You do not want any open holes in the mast as this will allow water to enter the mast if you capsize - and this goes for the entire length of the mast because if you go turtle, you definitely don't want water in the mast.
Regarding whether or not you should install the rotator - yes, install it! It is a critical feature for keeping the mast properly aligned. You don't need to adjust it at all while sailing if you don't want to, but you should certainly install it and hook it up.
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Posted: Feb 10, 2015 - 07:18 PM
I have no comptip. I've read that Hobie mast sealing link prior to posting. If it was that difficult getting the base plug out, could it have been that you hadn't taken out the trough bolt holding the mast rotator?
No matter what, the inside of the mast probably should be bone dry before sealing. Hence, I'll remove the top cap, plug and drain what water I can get out of the top, and drain from the screws as mentioned. I'm not sure I'll tackle removing the bottom plug if it was that difficult to do. But any moisture inside will draw water from outside.
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Posted: Feb 10, 2015 - 07:24 PM
Also, there is a post, bracket, held by two rivets at the top. Was this for a float? Most floats I've seen have the post? Good place though to rig some plastic bottles... not wanting to turtle.
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Posted: Feb 10, 2015 - 08:11 PM
Would have to see a picture of what you have there, doesn't sound standard. Sometimes people installed mast head wind vanes that used a bracket. If it's a really substantial piece it could be a Hobie Bob mast float bracket, but less likely.
http://www.amazon.com/Hob…y-60680001/dp/B008VGPQI6
At the hole where the bolt goes through the mast and rotator, Hobie came out with a retrofit kit of diamond shaped reinforcement plates because the hole would become oversized with wear and corrosion. (you can see the plate in that mast diagram)
Yes, you should absolutely have the rotator, but maybe not the one you have. The rotator changed design from a two piece unit with a pulley at the end to a one-piece wishbone shaped unit that looks like this.
The reason for the change was that the pulley tends to snag on the boom during jibes.
Install the diamond plates and the new style rotator if you can.
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Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
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Posted: Feb 10, 2015 - 08:28 PM
Another project you may as well tackle is rebuilding your boom. The H18 boom has an internal traveler car, pulleys, and bungee cord for the outhaul. Now the outhaul is really not a big deal on a Hobie 18 with factory sails, so feel free to ignore it, but if you like everything to be in working order then replace the bungee and possibly the traveler if the plastic pully is broken.
This is most easily done by drilling out the rivets in the casting at the end of the boom. Removing the casting will also allow you to replace the two worn out cleats on the top of the boom for the rotator and outhaul with new aluminum ones that will actually grib a line.
Hey, you said it was snowing and a boom rebuild you can do indoors.
One more tip in the same area is to replace the stock gooseneck connection on the mast with the Trentec Super Goose (hobie part #1510) and a ball lock pin. Makes connecting the boom to the mast quick, solid and easy. You may balk when you see those two tiny pieces add up to nearly $50 but... just sayin.
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Posted: Feb 10, 2015 - 09:08 PM
Oh boy, we'll get to the boom soon enough including getting rid of all those blocks! Thanks for the tips!
I removed the shrouds from the mast. Now, I've read where you should replace steel every so many years, I think 5, but if the wires show no sign of wear, why switch out?
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Posted: Feb 10, 2015 - 09:09 PM
Also, couldn't you just take the pulley off the existing rotator?
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Posted: Feb 10, 2015 - 09:16 PM
You haven't mentioned what year boat you have but since it doesn't have a comptip I'm guessing it's 30+ years old and that could be the original standing rigging. Doesn't mean it will fail but you can't tell by looking, and I'm not going to tell you I haven't sailed a beachcat with very old standing rigging, doesn't mean it's a good idea.
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Posted: Feb 10, 2015 - 09:19 PM
You could but you'd still need something to run the rotation limiter line through. You can certainly just use it as is with the pulley it's an upgrade you can do any time and not essential, just be aware it's not unusual if it snags on the top of the boom.
Lots of boats get parted out so you can probably find this part used it you watch the classifieds.
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Posted: Feb 11, 2015 - 11:57 AM
While my experience is with H14s and H16s, they have the two plugs as well, and this sounds like a good general plan. Inspect carefully when the top plug is removed......there may be mud in there too that needs to be washed out. My plugs were loose, and I was able to remove them with a corkscrewish implement that I made out a broomstick and coat hanger.
Even if you aren't planning to remove the bottom plug, I recommend that you remove the base, clean up in there, inspect well, and reseal the plug. Also seal all of the fittings/rivets along the mast as described above.
Note that, when the plugs are properly placed and sealed, there's really no need to seal the mast base and head (cap).....just makes 'em harder to remove if you have to again later.
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Posted: Feb 11, 2015 - 02:17 PM
I looked the mast over and there are no screws that can be removed that would give access to the inside? It started to warm a bit today and after lifting the mast I heard ICE in there! HA. I got some water out of there via the drain hole at the base but it will have to melt entirely etc.
I believe its a 78' the year I think they started building H18. So how hard is it, getting back to shore with the mast across the xbars?
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Posted: Feb 12, 2015 - 01:24 PM
Ok, I worked about an hour trying to get the top plug off the mast. I broke a drill bit in one of the rivets, so with a very hard and sharp thin chisel I got the lip off the rivet and pushed it through thinking I could get the wasted rivet out when I got the cap off. Cap wouldn't budge even after putting a torch to it. Not shure what they used to seal it, it wasn't coming undone. I was afraid of buggering the lip on the cap or possibly busting through the lip etc. So I drained what remaining water was there through the rivet holes, not much, and I'm just going to reseal the whole mast and forget about it. I'm not sure the effects of a few drops of water will have all sealed up in the mast but the will have to just go along for the ride.
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