i misunderstood - i thought you meant the eyestrap at the bottom of the main blocks
losing you mainsheet attachment point would be about the same as your steering wheel falling off your car and your gas and brake peddles breaking off at the same time
Referbing Hobie 18 Thread
Go to page [-1] 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 ... 12 - 13 - 14 [+1]:
-
- Rank: Master Chief
- Registered: Jun 20, 2006
- Last visit: Dec 04, 2024
- Posts: 7090
Posted: Mar 18, 2015 - 06:42 AM
-
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: Mar 19, 2004
- Last visit: Nov 21, 2024
- Posts: 964
Posted: Mar 18, 2015 - 10:15 AM
You could also move the bracket over slightly, but then you are adding another four holes in close proximity to the existing holes in the bottom of the crossbar. If those holes eventually corrode, then you're really in a fix. Plus the dead eye would obviously be off center.
Another option, which would be more difficult but not impossible, would be to add washers to the inside of the crossbar so the rivets have something to grab onto with the current holes. To me, thru-bolting seemed like the easiest and strongest option. If you sail in salt water, I would definitely also look into galvanically isolating the bracket/fasteners from the crossbar because it will eventually corrode. This could be as simple as placing a few pieces of electrical tape between the crossbar and bracket and installing the fasteners with Tefgel.
sm -
- Rank: Administrator
- Registered: Jul 19, 2001
- Last visit: Nov 15, 2024
- Posts: 3446
Posted: Mar 18, 2015 - 11:31 AM
If it's not loose, you can't wiggle it around even when pull it hard up and down side to side then just leave it alone and monitor, you've got other projects.
--
Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN
How To Create Your Signature
How To Create Your Own Cool Avatar
How To Display Pictures In The Forums.
-- -
- Rank: Master Chief
- Registered: Jun 20, 2006
- Last visit: Dec 04, 2024
- Posts: 7090
Posted: Mar 18, 2015 - 12:09 PM
why not drill and go to the next size rivet (up)?
(if and when needed)
Edited by MN3 on Mar 18, 2015 - 12:10 PM. -
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: Feb 18, 2013
- Last visit: Jul 19, 2015
- Posts: 396
Posted: Mar 18, 2015 - 02:10 PM
Good idea.
Alright, got the boat out and set it up to hoist the mast, this after watching the 2 part "How to rig a Hobiecat 18" on Youtube. No friggin luck. Nearly less than 1/4 of the mast is all you have for leverage standing on the tramp which is not nearly enough for me to hoist it. The diamond wires getting in the way made it more awkward. Not sure if the late 70's boat masts were made heavier but... I'm no weight lifter, but I'm not a slouch either. Is the mast in the video lighter. It looks thinner than mine. So the question is: am I confined to having crew to get the mast hoisted? Is there a technique I'm missing. Do you heave up, and get it on your shoulder, then up? I was hoping to solo this rig to get it in the water. Thanks for your help.
--
Goodsailing
Laser-Standard Rig (Sold 6/15)
H18 (Sold 7/15)
Building 19' Tacking Outrigger
Balt-Wash Area
-- -
- Rank: Master Chief
- Registered: Jun 20, 2006
- Last visit: Dec 04, 2024
- Posts: 7090
Posted: Mar 18, 2015 - 02:28 PM
yes until you master question #2
yes (see question #1)
no
why? you need at least 2 other people.
1 to help step the mast
and
1 to video tape it when / as it goes wrong for youtube and this site
That being said:
solo stepping an h18 (or any cat) is all about technique and leverage
I park my boat so i can take advantage of any angle i can along the beach (every degree helps)
I use my trailer mast yoke (that is about 6' in the air) to hold my (pinned) mast at an angle
then i get my shoulder against the mast and push off with the back foot on the back crossbar
i walk it up as i move forward...
then i sheet in my spinnaker halyard that i have attached to my Portuguese turnbuckle to secure the mast in the upright position as i walk the forestay foreward, and attach it to the Portuguese turnbuckle.
not sure how your gonna do that last part solo - getting someone to help is much easier
- you could put a shackle on your bridal furler, run a safety line from your forestay - through it - and back to the mast. After you step, you could snug up that line and walk forward... but ..... thats a lot of leverage working against you.
If you elevate the sterns a few feet somehow... once you have the mast "up" it will stay have gravity holding it forward
When i had my h18 - i started with an easy-step jinpole
Edited by MN3 on Mar 18, 2015 - 02:35 PM. -
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: Sep 29, 2012
- Last visit: Jan 10, 2018
- Posts: 441
Posted: Mar 18, 2015 - 02:39 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DO4RxwvjKtM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBqqouG9azY
HTH
Edited by the-renovator on Mar 18, 2015 - 02:45 PM. -
- Rank: Master Chief
- Registered: Jun 20, 2006
- Last visit: Dec 04, 2024
- Posts: 7090
Posted: Mar 18, 2015 - 02:51 PM
The first video is a h16 - it uses a tilted trailer for leverage on a smaller and lighter mast that has no diamond wires
the second video uses a ginpole to assist on a heavier and longer mast with diamond wires
Edited by MN3 on Mar 18, 2015 - 02:52 PM. -
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: Sep 29, 2012
- Last visit: Jan 10, 2018
- Posts: 441
Posted: Mar 18, 2015 - 02:56 PM
Yep! -
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: Feb 18, 2013
- Last visit: Jul 19, 2015
- Posts: 396
Posted: Mar 18, 2015 - 05:50 PM
Neighbor's must have had a gas watching my fail to get it up. HA. Yes, having at least one extra person to videotapea crash is a good idea. But I doubt seriously I'll have anyone to to help. So ... I've seen both of these videos.. thanks. I don't have tilt, and the one gin pole shown is a tad klugee. So here's what I found. I can build this for hardly any money.
I have a winch on the trailer (Y post that holds mast) so I don't think I'll need one on this pole. pretty simple set up. See his note that he added a T at the base to keep the post from moving up or down the mast. I could trace the mast shape on piece of 2x4 to shape wood. Adding only two blocks to each side of main beam should keep it stable. No need to shape forward end near winch.
http://skipmeisch.com/slo…grades/tips-GinPole.html lso
Also , if you put your boat on trailer bow facing rear, you could place a block on aft part of trailer. Using the winch at car end will pull gin pole down, towards rear of trailer perhaps taking care of the problem mentioned above.by MN3. Actually, this could be much better as mast is elevated at start using y post on trailer. Winch line runs under boat in this case.
Edited by goodsailing on Mar 18, 2015 - 06:26 PM.
--
Goodsailing
Laser-Standard Rig (Sold 6/15)
H18 (Sold 7/15)
Building 19' Tacking Outrigger
Balt-Wash Area
-- -
- Rank: Master Chief
- Registered: Jun 20, 2006
- Last visit: Dec 04, 2024
- Posts: 7090
Posted: Mar 19, 2015 - 10:40 AM
if there is a will, there is a way
not sure how your gonna prevent side to side sway with his setup
the E-Z mast system i had back in the day used the front trap wires as guy lines
http://static.hobiecat.co…_attachments/3151z52.pdf -
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: Mar 19, 2004
- Last visit: Nov 21, 2024
- Posts: 964
Posted: Mar 19, 2015 - 04:23 PM
A couple suggestions on mast raising....
Having a helper with you, at least for the first few times, is invaluable. Even if the weight of the mast isn't an issue, having someone there to free a fouled wire or connect the forestay is a huge help. The 18 mast is pretty heavy, so lifting with two people makes things a lot easier, especially if there's a cross breeze.
That being said, if you're strong enough, raising the mast solo is certainly doable. Some things that will make it easier- Take the boat off the trailer and put it on the ground before raising the mast. If this is an option, it makes things a lot easier. The boat is more stable when on the ground. You can also start hoisting the mast from behind the boat and walk forward up onto the tramp, raising the mast as you go.
Another thing you can do that helps with solo mast raising is to bring a 6 foot ladder with you. Put the ladder about 10 feet behind the boat. Pin the mast base to the mast step and then lift the mast up on to the ladder. This will prop the mast up at a higher angle so it is easier to start your lift - you won't have to bend over as far to pick up the mast. Then make sure all of the shrouds and trap wires are routed inside the rudders and clear of any snags before you lift.
sm -
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: Feb 18, 2013
- Last visit: Jul 19, 2015
- Posts: 396
Posted: Mar 19, 2015 - 05:37 PM
I built Skips gin pole. 8' long with teepee end comprised with channel that will fit mast to a T, no pun intended. $12 total cost including metal. I had to add some pieces of 2x4 to the 2x4 to stiffen it as, single 2x4 seemed to springy. Yes, having help at first is good idea, but I don't have help. Crew is in Aruba at the moment and wouldn't help anyway as they flew the coup;;; KIDS--spring break ta da. . Thanks for the EZ diagram. I had already determined to sling the hulls on both sides but couldn't figure out the blocks to ensure tension is equal on both sides of the gin pole to keep it from swaying, plus to keep the gin pole vertical until I can tension the raising line. Yes, fix gin pole, jump down to reel in raising line etc.
I want to get the mast up to fix the lines for the traps. Can't adjust unless it's up. I'll let you know how it goes, the gin pole that is... it's wood and I'm now thinking steel tubing would be more compact. I could have welded it in less time than what it took fooling with wood. And it looks like it needs paint.
--
Goodsailing
Laser-Standard Rig (Sold 6/15)
H18 (Sold 7/15)
Building 19' Tacking Outrigger
Balt-Wash Area
-- -
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: Feb 18, 2013
- Last visit: Jul 19, 2015
- Posts: 396
Posted: Mar 20, 2015 - 11:26 AM
Well it's snowing so ... I'm going to fix the trap lines once the snow melts provided my gin pole works.
They sell rope grabs for $25 @x4=$100 for adjustable on the fly trap line. I'm thinking Blakes Hitch. Basically a prusick knot. With two lines, one is attached to the eye and used to tie a blakes hitch to the second line that is attached to the dog bone. You basically lean back and the line connected to the eye with the Blakes Hitch grabs the rope connected to the line that has the dog bone arresting your traveling backward. To adjust, you simple put your left hand on the knot and move it, while holding the other line. No hardware needed. Anyone use this knot? Remember, before all the technology, only ropes were used. Hardware replaced knots.
--
Goodsailing
Laser-Standard Rig (Sold 6/15)
H18 (Sold 7/15)
Building 19' Tacking Outrigger
Balt-Wash Area
-- -
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: Feb 18, 2013
- Last visit: Jul 19, 2015
- Posts: 396
Posted: Mar 22, 2015 - 06:45 AM
Fail: The wooden gin pole didn't seem substantial enough. I'm not sure the amount of force that is created but it was enough that caused the gin pole to bend away from the centerline of mast. Once the mast was under tow it began to swing. I felt like a crane operator wondering if 1. the gin pole would break, 2 the mast would cant and break off from the mast step. I disassembled the contraption and got out ladder. I heaved the mast up on a ladder placed near the transom. I got up on the boat and attempted to lift the mast. It was harder to lift the mast from this elevated position than having the mast lay flat. This means, that not even using a ladder, when you hoist the mast up to that point, is where it becomes harder. I got out the aluminum motorcycle ramp and placed that on the rear xbar and attempted to walk the mast up the ramp... but nearly half way up I felt the ramp was too unstable, let alone the mast was unwieldy, the thought of coming down the ramp, de-masting would have been impossible.
The idea to to deal with this boat by myself on the ground is becoming ever more sketchy. If I can't get the mast up, I'm pretty much dead in the water so to speak. Let alone, de-masting. Then there is the physical aspects that once the mast is wrestled up, you're too exhausted to sail the boat! If in fact I really Umph it up, risking injury.
Any ideas?
Get help?
Join club where help might be available?
Scrap the project?
Sell the Hobie?
Concentrate on finishing the Proa that will have an easier mast set up.
Buy a Hobie Kayak with a sail--- (I know now why that's a trend.)
Also, if two people raise the mast, where do they stand and what do they do as I really don't see where a second person can help. I already had the mast up as high as a person could hold with the ladder and still couldn't get the mast up past my shoulder while standing on the tramp. Could the foam in the mast be holding water? I drained water out but perhaps the foam is water logged making the mast heavier than what I've seen in the two part video Rigging Hobiecat 18 on Youtube?
Thanks for any help... as I'm somewhat defeated at the moment.
--
Goodsailing
Laser-Standard Rig (Sold 6/15)
H18 (Sold 7/15)
Building 19' Tacking Outrigger
Balt-Wash Area
-- -
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: Feb 18, 2013
- Last visit: Jul 19, 2015
- Posts: 396
Posted: Mar 22, 2015 - 01:43 PM
Not defeated yet:
I looked at this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ca_n9F7pwuY
I noticed the receiver in the mast for the gin pole. I've decided to use my boom as the gin pole. So I've made a female receiver for my boom goose neck. If it slips I'll tack weld it, but I looks pretty sturdy. I'll complete the rigging like this video using the tramp lines and extending two lines down from the end of the boom (gin pole) etc. I'll let you know how it works. Oh, I'll use the wooded gin pole as a crutch for the back of the boat to lift the mast up to get it started.
http://www.thebeachcats.c…ictures?g2_itemId=113139
--
Goodsailing
Laser-Standard Rig (Sold 6/15)
H18 (Sold 7/15)
Building 19' Tacking Outrigger
Balt-Wash Area
-- -
- Rank: Lubber
- Registered: Apr 24, 2014
- Last visit: Apr 09, 2017
- Posts: 98
Posted: Mar 22, 2015 - 10:36 PM
You should be able to life the mast by yourself. Easy way is to put cat on beach wheels so that it's nose down. Place a ladder (at least 6') behind the boat and lay mast on it. Crouch at rear crossbar and put mast on your shoulder. Stand up with mast on your should, turn and face front of boat. Walk forward on the tramp, using your arms to "walk" the mast into the upright position. Once it's all the way forward, the raised rear of the cat will help hold the mast up. At this point I was have two trap wires run forward and tied together with a rope. Run the rope through a block somewhere on your trailer, and back through a jib cleat. Cleat the rope off to hold the mast while you pin the forestay.
I can heave up the 30' stick on my Nacra, so you should be able to get yours up too. Other option is to rig up a winch on your trailer. You can pick one up for
--
Tim
81 Hobie 16
87 Nacra 5.7
Austin, TX
-- -
- Rank: Master Chief
- Registered: Jun 20, 2006
- Last visit: Dec 04, 2024
- Posts: 7090
Posted: Mar 23, 2015 - 06:53 AM
+1
my 6.0 (31') mast was solo stepped using a homemade wooden ginpole (6"x2") for a year before i purchased it
it's all about technique -
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: Feb 18, 2013
- Last visit: Jul 19, 2015
- Posts: 396
Posted: Mar 23, 2015 - 07:13 AM
I get putting the cat on the ground but I've not built beech wheels yet. So when the nose is down and you step up on the back of the boat holding the mast, won't the back of the boat go down. Unless of course the wheels are all the way in the back? I'm going to try my boom as gin pole today and will let you know what happens.
Also, are you putting a milk crate on the ground to jump up with the mast, 22" or more the height of beach wheels to get on the tramp while walking up the mast?
Edited by goodsailing on Mar 23, 2015 - 07:30 AM.
--
Goodsailing
Laser-Standard Rig (Sold 6/15)
H18 (Sold 7/15)
Building 19' Tacking Outrigger
Balt-Wash Area
-- -
- Rank: Master Chief
- Registered: Jun 20, 2006
- Last visit: Dec 04, 2024
- Posts: 7090
Posted: Mar 23, 2015 - 08:31 AM
you put the wheels almost all the way back to prevent ANY chance of you teeter tottering with a 28' stick in your hands/shoulders
this can also be done with a trailer. put the bows down and rest the sterns on the trailer wheels (Trailer must be attached to car or other static object)
you should be standing on your tramp
if your not using the yoke of a trailer you need to use the ladder to get the angle of the mast working in your favor
crude photoshop work here....
Edited by MN3 on Mar 23, 2015 - 08:33 AM.
Go to page [-1] 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 ... 12 - 13 - 14 [+1]: