deleted
Edited by goodsailing on Jul 09, 2015 - 08:33 PM.
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Goodsailing
Laser-Standard Rig (Sold 6/15)
H18 (Sold 7/15)
Building 19' Tacking Outrigger
Balt-Wash Area
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Boat Buying---Am I missing something?
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Posted: Jul 09, 2015 - 05:38 PM
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Posted: Jul 09, 2015 - 08:53 PM
Yes, you went for the deal instead of what was correct for you. Happens a lot. Pete -
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Posted: Jul 09, 2015 - 11:37 PM
That might be true, to a point. I always wanted an H18 but actually my thoughts were along the lines of something else. In search of another boat, why is it boat sellers don't want to talk on the phone to a prospect yet want to engage in email or texting discourse. Don't they realize that callers=real buyer where as emailer = tire kicker, flake etc..
When I post items for sale I put: calls only, no emails. And guess what, people who call usually buy the item. Not sure why this fact is not yet taken hold across the enterprise.
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Goodsailing
Laser-Standard Rig (Sold 6/15)
H18 (Sold 7/15)
Building 19' Tacking Outrigger
Balt-Wash Area
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Posted: Jul 10, 2015 - 12:14 AM
People like things in writing, its harder to convey information on the phone and you end up repeating things quite a bit. I myself prefer doing business electronically. Its always awkward trying to talk to strangers on the phone.
D.
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Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Posted: Jul 10, 2015 - 09:23 AM
I presume its awkward talking to people if you spend the majority of your time typing notes back and forth.
Not all people like things in writing. When buying a boat, a sailboat, there's much info you need to make and informed decision. That info can be overwelming if you are calling several boat sellers in search of best buy opportunities. Instead of sending over a written list of 90 questions, wouldn't it be eaiser to ask and get answers by phone? Would inflection in voice indicate if a person (seller) is telling the truth that you couldn't get via written word.
For instance the same conversation via type and via phone:
Via type:
Buyer: IS there any rot in the hulls?
Selller: NO. When do you want to see the boat?
Via phone:
Buyer: Is there any rot in the hulls? If you stick your head in the port does it smell musty or does it smell like fresh resin.
Seller: Errr um, not sure, but there's is water in there, and we had problems getting the boat up as the mast leaks.
Buyer: when was it last sailed?
Seller: three years ago
(Boat has been sitting outside for at least 3 years with water in the hulls) OK...
You can gain a lot more info via phone, than by type, as no all typers answer the question fully, plus do to the fact that typing is work, they fail to add additional info that could lead you to steer clear. The seller could even withold info via type that is important.
Yet you can type back and forth with a stranger and find it awkward to talk on the phone. Not sure I get your point?
Please explain why you are more comfortable typing and not talking especially when attempting to do business. And why would you prefer to answer a bunch of questions via type, instead of simply talking to someone who identifies themselves as a real buyer of your boat? Afterall, you might sell the boat, via a 3 minute phone call. And if the buyer (your customer) wants to talk on the phone, why would you not accomodate your customer.
Edited by goodsailing on Jul 10, 2015 - 09:24 AM.
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Goodsailing
Laser-Standard Rig (Sold 6/15)
H18 (Sold 7/15)
Building 19' Tacking Outrigger
Balt-Wash Area
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Posted: Jul 14, 2015 - 10:26 PM
Pretty easy to walk away from a conversation via email than having to stand there and answer questions as this thread shows--the reason phone is used by principals conducting business. Business people need answers. I've bought and sold 6 boats in the last 36 months, sold two boats in the last 60 days and on every occasion phone was used for market research, negotiations and closing deals. You may note on Craigslist most principals state: phone calls only, or no replies to emails without phone number etc. I'm not missing anything I think... using phone only, as a qualifier, in identifying principals works for me. I'm totally amazed how guys would rather buy and sell a boat by email rather than by phone. I think there are less deals done via that mode, as once I began to use phone as a qualifier, I spent less time typing that went nowhere, and leads were real.
I suspect phone will come out on top the reason it was invented in the first place: so humans wouldn't have to write notes, a 17th century technology. Phones were first adopted by business people before the general public got phones same with fax machines, lawyers and ad agencies were the first buyers. I keep telling my kids they're going backwards... texting is the new talking... they say... until they enter a world that goes beyond texting: ..........."here" when they pull up to their friends house.
Good read here for those want to get things done.
Pick up the phone
https://hbr.org/2011/11/d…hat-email-pick-up-t.html
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Goodsailing
Laser-Standard Rig (Sold 6/15)
H18 (Sold 7/15)
Building 19' Tacking Outrigger
Balt-Wash Area
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Posted: Jul 15, 2015 - 04:37 PM
Sometimes the phone is good, other times e-mail or texts get the job done just as well. Depends on the product. If I sell a truck, I will require a phone call. If I am trying to give away a pile of bricks, a text can work just as well. -
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Posted: Jul 15, 2015 - 09:45 PM
Lets use the simple item first:
Used soccer ball for sale $2
Buyer writes:
Is it still available?
Seller: Yes
Buyer:
When can I come and buy it?
Seller:
You can come any time
Buyer:
How about Friday night
Seller:
Gosh, wife just told me we're going out to dinner Friday.
Can you come Saturday
Buyer:
Can't come Saturday. How about Sunday.
Seller:
Yea Sunday is OK. What time can you be here.
Buyer: I can come after 12.
Seller: What time after 12
Buyer: Around 2
Seller: OK
Buyer: what is your address
Seller
1213 Oak Street
Bethesda MD
Buyer: What is your cell number
Seller:
212 234 4567
Seller
What is your phone number?
48 hours pass and you never get a response from buyer.
End of conversation, buyer never provides any info whatsoever yet you spent your time giving him all your info.
Times this by 7 or 8 prospects. For a two dollar item. For the time you spent typing you might as well put the ball in the trash.
Callers = buyers. Talking to a real buyer saves sooooo much time.
Sorry: way too much typing for me for some who fell off the face.
My ad:
Soccer ball $2
You want it, call me.
Phone.. etc.
For the 6 boats I've sold recently I got about 7 or 8 calls. For the H18 I just sold I got one call and he came and got it the next day from 400 miles away. I got 4 or 5 emails on this boat, not from the guy who called and bought the boat. I never responded to the emailers and they never called. Hence, the guys who didn't call, where not buyers or simply lost getting a good boat, because they didn't call. I suspect the former. Not buyers.
Why chit chat via email with a non buyer? He could be a 12 year old kid and has not yet told his dad he's out buying a boat, for god sakes.
Requiring phone is a good qualifier that eliminates non buyers, the emailers and texters IMHO. Try it for you next sale.
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Goodsailing
Laser-Standard Rig (Sold 6/15)
H18 (Sold 7/15)
Building 19' Tacking Outrigger
Balt-Wash Area
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Posted: Jul 15, 2015 - 09:45 PM
Lets use the simple item first:
Used soccer ball for sale $2
Buyer writes:
Is it still available?
Seller: Yes
Buyer:
When can I come and buy it?
Seller:
You can come any time
Buyer:
How about Friday night
Seller:
Gosh, wife just told me we're going out to dinner Friday.
Can you come Saturday
Buyer:
Can't come Saturday. How about Sunday.
Seller:
Yea Sunday is OK. What time can you be here.
Buyer: I can come after 12.
Seller: What time after 12
Buyer: Around 2
Seller: OK
Buyer: what is your address
Seller
1213 Oak Street
Bethesda MD
Buyer: What is your cell number
Seller:
212 234 4567
Seller
What is your phone number?
48 hours pass and you never get a response from buyer.
End of conversation, buyer never provides any info whatsoever yet you spent your time giving him all your info.
Times this by 7 or 8 prospects. For a two dollar item. For the time you spent typing you might as well put the ball in the trash.
Callers = buyers. Talking to a real buyer saves sooooo much time.
Sorry: way too much typing for me for some who fell off the face.
My ad:
Soccer ball $2
You want it, call me.
Phone.. etc.
For the 6 boats I've sold recently I got about 7 or 8 calls. For the H18 I just sold I got one call and he came and got it the next day from 400 miles away. I got 4 or 5 emails on this boat, not from the guy who called and bought the boat. I never responded to the emailers and they never called. Hence, the guys who didn't call, where not buyers or simply lost getting a good boat, because they didn't call. I suspect the former. Not buyers.
Why chit chat via email with a non buyer? He could be a 12 year old kid and has not yet told his dad he's out buying a boat, for god sakes.
Requiring phone is a good qualifier that eliminates non buyers, the emailers and texters IMHO. Try it for you next sale.
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Goodsailing
Laser-Standard Rig (Sold 6/15)
H18 (Sold 7/15)
Building 19' Tacking Outrigger
Balt-Wash Area
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Posted: Jul 16, 2015 - 01:03 PM
Goodsailing.. get use to this mode of communication..
I had a conversation with a client recently regarding email... she would email me a question, I would call and leave a message, she we email me right away asking if I could email her the answer... This tells me she was sitting at her desk and could have taken the call...
I call her again, leave another message, this time I get a prompt returned call from an aggravated client telling me she only works with email... and doesn't take phone calls she noted she finds talking on the phone annoying.... Ummmm excuse me what are you being paid to do???? After I let her her rant I explain to her that:
Chances are I am in the field and I want to make sure we are providing prompt service to their inquires... I further explain we're one of the last companies when you call our support line you get a live voice 24/7.. and this is how we do business. You may be talking to someone in Australia, but you talking to a real person not a bunch of press #4, Press #9, press #1 or an automated email response.
Secondly I explained if I do respond to email, chances are if I am in the field I will need to stop, pull over, fire up the iPad, and start typing... and I can only answer that question.
Thirdly, chances are once I respond to your email, you're going to have four or five more questions... which they always do.... that again I have to stop and address.... that can be covered in a call while I am in bumper to bumper Los Angeles traffic.
Funny.... she now emails me stating she has a few questions and to give her a call when I have the time... to which I promptly call.. we're moving in the right direction.
Moving further on, I have a friend that teaches Health Assessment at a pretty well known university in So Cal. This is teaching nurses and doctors (students) how to do an initial physical exam... They now have to teach a course in basic communication skills as many of the students coming in these days don't as she notes even know how to communicate... She has even gone as far as all phone or electronic devices are not allowed in class.. she as a table for them to leave them on... and has petitioned the dean to addopt this policy for the whole school.... good luck with that!
Don't feel bad Goodsailing... pretty soon we'll have chips in our heads that will allow us to communicate without even doing anything..
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John Schwartz
Ventura, CA
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Posted: Jul 16, 2015 - 06:46 PM
Different strokes for different folks Goodsailing. I often receive inquires during times that I cannot speak on the phone, E-mails and texts work just fine for some people. I have bought and sold a lot of stuff both ways.
Put calls only in your add, do not respond to other inquires = your problem solved. -
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Posted: Jul 16, 2015 - 07:55 PM
As for myself I'm busy as hell and I like the option to respond on my own time, not when someone decides to call. I also like the option to screen the people I do business with. I've sold things online and gotten 30 annoying calls about it for people wanting to dicker and or just generally eating my time.
Also even though I prefer email, I'm easy to deal with, pay very promptly, and if I'm selling and something goes amiss I make it right. Not sure what your point is, if you don't like doing business over email than don't. I've done sailing stuff almost exclusively via email for years and I'm fine with it. I talk to enough clients every day on the phone to not feel the need to do so for my hobby.
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Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Posted: Jul 16, 2015 - 08:47 PM
So you've started and ended a complete transaction via texting or email without ever speaking to the individual. A complex piece of used equipment, boat, car, aircraft, motorcycle, tractor, bulldoser, etc. Are you considering the time you spend typing, even when it is at your leisure?
You should be able to identify a prospect pretty quick by asking them questions on the phone: Do you ask them questions. Like why do you want another H18, like what I'm selling if you already own one? There's something to be said about you qualifying the buyer via phone, to save time etc. You live in AK and I'm in FL. Where do you plan sailing this boat after you buy it? FL, OH your moving to FL. When? in a year... OK well call me back after you are in FL, if you are interested, and it is still available, OK, I have another call.
Dave,
Let start with the mast, just the mast via type:
I need to know the amount of work I'll need to do to the boat after buying it, plus I need the info to compare to the other boat I'm currently looking at. In determining market value. And best buy opportunity. In otherwords, based upon your answer will determine if I buy your boat or the other boat. Remember you have the opportunity to ask the prospect questions, and based upon what they say you could persuade them to buy your boat not the other boat. Not easily done via text as text is not as fluid as speach. Jeesh.
I'm a real buyer and I'd prefer doing this by phone but here goes:
1. Is it the original mast
2. If not what boat did it come from.
3. What year was the boat it came from, was it the original mast of that boat
4 Is there any dents or holes
5 Is is sealed, with what, when last sealed, did you do the work
6. Hows the pulleys, they work, any broke
7. How are all the rivets, do any need replaced
8. Are any wires frayed
9. Is the sleeve where the mast goes up, is it creased, any cracks, is it bent
10. Any bows in the mast, is it straight
11. What is the condition of the metal, if I run my finger along the mast will it notice white chalk on my finger
12. Has the mast been stored inside
13 If outside, was it covered with tarp or exposed to the elements
14. Did you have it in mast up storage, how long, where, lake or near ocean
15. Has the mast ever been repaired, tell me about it, please be descriptive
16 Did the mast float when capsized
17. How the hinge for the mast step
18. How is the receiver to the mast step, is there any play
19 Has the mast ever been painted
20 Is there any tape on the diamond wires
22 How about those plastic disks that keep the sail off the wires, are they there, broken etc
23 How long have you owned this mast
24. When were the wires, shrouds last replaced
25
We can do the hulls next, then the sail, then the rudders etc.
But I'd really like to do this on the phone to save time as I AM A BUYER, and don't have time for a lot of typing...
Could you please call me. Thanks
Edited by goodsailing on Jul 16, 2015 - 09:07 PM.
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Goodsailing
Laser-Standard Rig (Sold 6/15)
H18 (Sold 7/15)
Building 19' Tacking Outrigger
Balt-Wash Area
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Posted: Jul 16, 2015 - 08:54 PM
And it is getting worse. People not only don't know how to communicate they can't even walk. Distracted walking is now the cause of many accidents. Plus, cell phones are the target of bag guys. July 4 a man on DC Metro was stabbed 40 times and kicked in the head dead as riders watched in horror. Fight started as bg went for cell phone. see washpost dc metro stabbing july 4.
Hopefully someday Phone= taking care of business; emailing and text= noise. (The way I see it now for business communications regarding buying and selling assets.) If you can't schedule a phone call via email there is no sense in continuing the discussion.)
Edited by goodsailing on Jul 16, 2015 - 09:03 PM.
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Goodsailing
Laser-Standard Rig (Sold 6/15)
H18 (Sold 7/15)
Building 19' Tacking Outrigger
Balt-Wash Area
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Posted: Jul 17, 2015 - 08:42 AM
Goodsailing, Here is a real transaction between myself and another member here. 7 texts, less than a minute of looking at the phone. Everything is already recorded. This transaction would have required 3 separate phone calls. I would have had to call and get a shipping price. Then he would have had to call me back with a price and give me payment information. Finally, I would have had to call back again to correct an error in the shipping destination. It would have also required both of us to have a pencil and paper ready. I would have not been able to complete phone call 1 or 3 during business hours that day either.
I do not hound sellers with endless questions about the boat and every individual part, nor do I let buyers do that to me over the phone. I either want the boat inspected in person, or I may decide to make a purchase sight unseen. You either trust the seller by the original description or your do not.
Edited by carolinacatamarans on Jul 17, 2015 - 09:44 AM. -
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Posted: Jul 17, 2015 - 09:31 AM
I do put call only in ads. This screens buyers from shoppers. I don't consider doing surveys or market research via phone hounding sellers. Often ads lack substantive information. Many sellers only put in 1 photo and copy is lacking information. Now when traveling 400 miles to buy the boat, as I never leave the house to a destination unless I'm buying the boat I need a pretty accurate "picture" of what the boat is about before getting there. I made the mistake of not asking the right questions about a Laser, drove to NC from DC only to find the boat deck was seperated from the hull. I still bought the boat but forced the seller to provide a discount due to him not telling me how much work there would be for me to fix it.
Now the text example above shows an immediate sale, and texting to arrange closing. This is OK, I agree, the mode of communications regarding simple relaying of facts about where to ship and where to send money etc. But to have conversations with people where you have no idea their intent, or ability to pay is not a good idea in my opinion. In Europe firms must pass papers back and forth to prove they are principals BEFORE conversations start to prove to all parties they are qualified to do the business. Seller owns title, buyer has the requirement and ability to pay.
The idea that people claim texting or emailing is better than speech, for negiotations, market research as principal is bizarre. Yes hiding behind email where you won't allow the seller the opportunity to know if you are real or not might work for you but does little for the seller who struggles to learn if you are real. The reason I want to hear your voice and ask you a few questions perhaps to learn your genuine interest.
And what principal wants to read instead of listening? We haven't talked about the time it takes to READ, if your reading this to formulate an appropriate response, if in fact you are even considering making a response. Reading takes time and in some instances, time to try and figure out what the guy is talking about, which invites more typed questions and more typed answers.
Look how many questions have been asked here, yet have gone unaswered: And if the buyer (your customer) wants to talk on the phone, why would you not accomodate your customer? as asked waaaay up there, yet was never answered. So you have gaps in text communications.
Isn't a prospect your customer. Do you not attempt to accomodate your customer. If they want a call, why not arrange one? Perhaps you are not so serious a seller that a buyer might as well pass on your boat, or perhaps something is wrong with the boat they the seller want to avoid hard asked questions by phone. Sorry but I'm not driving 500 miles to your boat until I speak with you on the phone. You could be a scam?
Now type the above with your tumbs. LOL
Edited by goodsailing on Jul 17, 2015 - 09:43 AM.
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Goodsailing
Laser-Standard Rig (Sold 6/15)
H18 (Sold 7/15)
Building 19' Tacking Outrigger
Balt-Wash Area
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