Thinking about replacing my Nacra Inter 20 Sails. Current ones are Mylar by Elliot Patterson and believe are original. Still in pretty good shape but windows a little foggy and crinkled...new sails would be nice. Questions...
1. I know of Calvert and Elliot Patterson...any others I should be looking at?
2. Any recommendation on the maker?
3. Material: Mylar or Pentex?
I have been doing a few upgrades to the boat. Not racing yet... but love performance of the boat, also...ya got look good. Love the colors of the Pentex.
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Steve
Nacra Inter 20
Okemos Michigan
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New Sails for a Nacra
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Posted: Aug 22, 2015 - 10:42 PM
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Posted: Aug 22, 2015 - 11:47 PM
I have a set of ep Pentax sails on my 5.7 and love them. They will last a lot longer than Mylar.
I also have a set of custom Dacron whirlwind sails on my 5.2 and they are equally nice! Maybe even better in the little details.
If it were me I'd go for a whirlwind super r Pentex sail as a first choice. With ep as a very close second.
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Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Posted: Aug 23, 2015 - 12:08 AM
I purchased a new mylar main and dacron jib from SLO Sail and Canvas in May and am very happy with the performance, look and customer service.
https://photos.google.com…NG5fNW9zUU5sZ2ZnbWRia0JR
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Kip
NACRA 5.8na
Chesapeake, VA
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Posted: Aug 23, 2015 - 12:40 AM
Several of the N20 sailors along the Mississippi, Alabama, and Florida gulf coast use Schurr Sails in Pensacola.
http://www.schurrsails.com/default.asp
Also Check out Glaser sails.
http://www.glasersails.com/
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Ron
Nacra F18
Reservoir Sailing Assn.
Brandon, Mississippi
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Posted: Aug 23, 2015 - 11:43 AM
Don't know much about Shurr sails, but I will give a thumbs up to Glaser.... they have been involved with beach cats scene since day one (I believe the company was called Danger Sails), are still active in the local racing community, and the quality and customer service is A+++++++++
Edited by JohnES on Aug 23, 2015 - 11:43 AM.
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John Schwartz
Ventura, CA
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Posted: Aug 23, 2015 - 02:00 PM
Take a look at this link for Slo Sails's Laminate sail material shown on a Nacra 5.2 its unique. http://www.slosailandcanvas.com/nacra-5-2-radial-injection-laminate-mainsail/
They have this material in several colors.
I recently purchased a Jib for my H18 SX and could not be happier!!! I special request for the trim and zipper to be done in Black.
Corkguy H18 SX -
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Posted: Aug 23, 2015 - 07:33 PM
All the sailmakers mentioned can make great catamaran sails, but since http://www.slosailandcanvas.com/ is a paid advertiser you know who gets my vote!
Corkmaster, you need the matching main! Love that die injected Pentex.
Steve, whoever you end up dealing with, please report back on your experience (with pictures), and tell them TheBeachcats.com sent you, need more advertisers!
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Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN
How To Create Your Signature
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Posted: Aug 23, 2015 - 07:52 PM
Randy Smyth made be some big sails for the Open 20 rule. They WAY powered up the boat. -
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Posted: Aug 25, 2015 - 09:53 AM
+1 on SLO, those guys have taken very good care of me. Great communication, and great product. They use DP sail cloth like most of the other good guys do. I would ask which brand sail cloth is used then talking to sail makers. They have quite a bit of experience with catamarans and specifically Nacras even though their site shows a lot of different boats and monos. They were on revision 4 or so on the Nacra 5.2 radial cut main and were quick to say that they were happy with where they are in the development of that sail. Always nice to use a sailmaker with experience on your specific boat. I can't say whether or not that applies to the I20 in this case though.
Email Andrew slosailandcanvas@yahoo.com and tell him that Cesar sent you.
These guys sponsored quite a few events for us here in Michigan so in addition to making good product they are also active in the sailing community with sponsorship which is a good thing.
Here is a link to SLO's site with a couple pictures of my sails http://www.slosailandcanv…adial-laminate-mainsail/
Take care, happy sailing
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Cesar (Cez) S.
Hobie 16 (had a few)
Nacra 5.2 "Hull Yeah"
Vectorworks XJ - A class (not named yet)
West Michigan (Grand Rapids/Holland Area)
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Posted: Aug 25, 2015 - 10:18 AM
Look, no offense to the guys above, and I'm sure SLO sails make a great product as does Schurr (who was building to Randy Smyths design I believe), but you're looking for sails for a fully blown race boat, not the family Nacra 5.2 that you bounce around the beach on....
If you're still racing the I20/N20 in a one design fleet, EP is the only class legal sailmaker, and builds a good product.
The Schurr Open 20 sails I am confident are faster in light air than the stock setup but seemed really over powered in breeze and I'm not sure about the build quality. The ones I saw were on an aluminum rigged N20, which is a rare beast and a completely different mast shape/bend etc. than the stock I20/N20 carbon stick.
Now, if you aren't racing in a one design fleet, I'd be having a long conversation with Jay Glaser. They build really fast sails and are one of only 2 sailmakers in the U.S building competitive F18 sails (North being the other). If you aren't building competitive F18 sails, you are simply behind the times on sail development. So, they would be my go-to choice, especially since they have already a set of fast, proven sails for the 20-they were used to win the last Great Texas race if I'm not mistaken. -
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Posted: Aug 26, 2015 - 02:43 AM
Performance Sails are currently manufacturer supplied and race legal sails on the Nacra Inter 20. EP's are grandfathered in but have not supplied sails in years.
Performance Sails are owned by Nacra and are some of the fastest sails in the world (won the last two F18 worlds!), and are reasonably priced. We can build for aluminum or carbon I20 masts.
You're in Michigan, we can ship you some from Illinois from Nacra North America. Drop me a note, Todd@NacraSailing.com (don't worry Damon, your on my list :)
I know SLO makes a good product... but bigger and powered up is much less efficient than the current designs the top sail makers are using (Performance, Glaser, etc.)
Wolfman, Mylar is the film on the outside, Pentex is the fiber inside. The newer mylar laminates have come a long way from what you think of as Mylar. In reality, Pentex is terrible. It breaks down easily and is only a slight cost savings for VERY minor performance over polyester laminate. In a perfect world we'd all sail with Polyester Laminate or Carbon laminate and nothing in between because it would be hard to create value and performance in a mid level fiber. Ask a top sailor that knows about cloth, sailmaker, and sailcloth manufacturers, they will agree. This has been a big sore point in the F18 class because the 2-5% improved stretch of Pentex but how do you phase it out? Heck if the sailcloth manufacturers could stop making pentex they'd be thrilled, most have already tried including the company I used to work for. -
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Posted: Aug 26, 2015 - 04:02 AM
I would contact Chip at Whirlwind sails. He makes really nice sails custom to every boat at a good cost. He made me some great Technora sails that are awesome!
http://www.whirlwindsails.com/videos.html
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David
Nacra 5.5SL
Nacra 5.2 (sold)
San Diego, CA
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Posted: Aug 26, 2015 - 10:30 AM
All depends on what you are looking for. You've got cheap, you've got value (good product good price), and you have top end which is usually overpriced. When you have one design restrictions then you are usually stuck with the third but I don't think that you have that in a I20. But EP cuts decent sails as well.
I know someone that went cheap and blew out the sail track stitching on the first big puff.
I'd definitely consider how many sails the sailmaker has cut for your specific boat though.
wildtsail @ performance sails seems to have it all for your case.
SLO specializes in that great value field. Feel free to ask the guys at SLO about their race history as well. They aren't the Glaser team but they are experienced and understand how to make performance sails. Again I don't know about their I20 experience though. I would consider that a major factor.
If you do the occasional portsmouth race then I'd seek value, meaning you define what you want to pay for. Maybe having the top of the line sail is valuable to you, to me it was using a sail maker with experience with my boat that used the specific DP fabric that I was looking at and price. Glaser came in a bit higher and since my boat has a much different sail plan than a F18 I opted for SLO who knew my boat and the jib/genoa and main scene a little better.
Whoa there sam99us! Haha My old 5.2 sees more races than many boats, family beach cruises still happen though relatively rare. While somewhat outdated, it was the full blown race boat back in it's day and still moves pretty well and isn't missing much that new boats have. I keep it around because I can race it weekly, set it up quickly, and it rates close to the other guys that I race with every week, we usually have a few close in rating on the weekend regattas as well.
Edited by cezo823 on Aug 26, 2015 - 11:33 AM.
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Cesar (Cez) S.
Hobie 16 (had a few)
Nacra 5.2 "Hull Yeah"
Vectorworks XJ - A class (not named yet)
West Michigan (Grand Rapids/Holland Area)
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Posted: Aug 27, 2015 - 02:39 PM
wildtsail, interesting point on the Performance Sails...will advise our fleet to go that way if it remains class legal and cost effective.
cezo823, not ragging on the Nacra 5.2 which is a fine boat but my real point is no one is doing serious, race performance based development work on sails for older platforms. Even if you got 10-20 Nacra 5.2's together for a race, the depth of talent is unlikely to match that of even the U.S F18 fleet, which has Olympic contenders and hopefuls down to about 10th place at U.S Nationals and far deeper than that in a Worlds fleet. It's tough to do good sail development without really top level sailors on the boat racing regularly-the feedback loop just isn't there, no matter how good the design team is.
Edited by samc99us on Aug 27, 2015 - 02:51 PM. -
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Posted: Aug 27, 2015 - 02:53 PM
I've had multiple positive experiences with both Glaser and EP.
Dave -
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Posted: Aug 27, 2015 - 04:39 PM
I had EP make me a new main for my Inter-18 a couple of years ago. I went with Dacron. The sail will last a very long time and can be repaired. We sail heavy weather on Lake Michigan so this was important. The boat will never be competitive in the F-18 class so it was stupid to spend an extra 1K on a high tech sail cloth.
If your boat is an Inter-20, (vs a Nacra-20). You might want to consider saving that 1K for rudders or something else that will break. Maybe a rear crossbeam.
I was easiest to buy a stock F-18 jib.
Skip put red batten pockets on the main. Overall the rig looks great and I am happy.
--Norm
https://www.flickr.com/ph…ansoncoyne/shares/hM1eLe
Edited by nhanson on Aug 27, 2015 - 05:43 PM.
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nacra inter-18
CNBP
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Posted: Aug 27, 2015 - 05:07 PM
All good samc99us, just messin with ya. Deeper pockets doesn't necessarily mean better talent but I get your point and totally agree. The active and most competitive classes are where innovation comes from and where the top talent tend to gravitate towards. Can't discount that at all. Stock car racing vs Formula 1.
To relate back to purchasing a sail, if I were competing in the F18 worlds I'd pay for every piece of tech and innovation that I could afford to, those extra percentage points can make a different with the top talent in the world. Anything less I'd go after value, best bang for the buck, personal opinion. 95% of it is skill, experience, and tactics, if it was mostly about the motor (sail in this case) then we would all be power boaters instead of sailors. :)
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Cesar (Cez) S.
Hobie 16 (had a few)
Nacra 5.2 "Hull Yeah"
Vectorworks XJ - A class (not named yet)
West Michigan (Grand Rapids/Holland Area)
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Posted: Jul 14, 2016 - 10:56 PM
Thanks for all the input and suggestions!
Ended up ordering a polyester laminate set from Performance Sails/ Nacra North America in late December. I was hoping they would be here before the start of the season. After a little prodding in late April I found out there was a snafu in transmitting the order to the Netherlands. To compensate they through in a set of foam core battens (sweet!).
Shipped several weeks later but had to sit in a customs office in Tennessee for almost three weeks before arriving mid-June.
Royal blue jib, white main, and an orange and white spinnaker. Would love to show off the spin in the pic but haven't flown it yet. I ordered one for an end pole snuffer but I think I got one for a mid-pole (3/4 connection points instead of the two). I've sent several emails and web submissions to Performance Sails/ Nacra North America/ Central Coast Sailing but I am having a hard time getting a response.
Anyway, hopefully they are all busy with the Olympics and they'll straighten it out in the coming weeks. Should I be concerned about this or no worries and just go fly the thing?
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Steve
Nacra Inter 20
Okemos Michigan
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Posted: Jul 15, 2016 - 08:57 AM
Not sure how long you have been trying to contact them
I find it very frustrating when a vendor won't properly take care of its customers
esp a new customer whos order they have already had issues with
I would be slightly hesitant to go with a vendor out of the usa
your ability to dispute an issue or get repairs done seem to be problematic
How long have you been trying to contact them?
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Posted: Jul 15, 2016 - 09:42 AM
Vendor issues can be problematic, Nacra has always been a little hit or miss in that regard. Rick Bliss at New England Catamarans is the man to talk to about resolving issues, he will run point and do his best to get it solved. My suggestion though is to take your old kite and new kite to a competent local sail maker and have them add the end pole patch(s) to the new kite.
As to overseas vendors, that isn't always the case. For example, I have found all my dealings with the British cat sailing community to be top notch.
On the sails, they look fantastic! Can you do me a favor and snap some photos from behind the boat of the main with reasonable breeze? Also one looking up the middle of the main from the boom? Sail needs to be sheeted on and boat placed like you are going to weather. Some quantitative analysis vs. the EP sails would also be good, are these deeper cut? Flatter? More or less responsive to downhaul?
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