Best knot for trapeze dog bone?
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Posted: Aug 28, 2015 - 05:46 PM
Simple trapeze setup, what is best knot for dog bone to ensure I don't end up in water watching my boat sail away? -
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Posted: Aug 28, 2015 - 09:30 PM
I have used the anchor knot. Easy to tie, easy to undo, but won't come undone. It is also compact, you can easily make the tail almost zero, & it yields almost full line strength.
http://www.apparent-wind.com/knots/anchor-hitch/
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Posted: Aug 29, 2015 - 07:26 AM
I like it, thanks Ed. -
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Posted: Aug 30, 2015 - 06:30 PM
For an added measure of security, throw an overhand knot in the tail end so if it slips, it can't come undone.
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Posted: Aug 31, 2015 - 04:48 AM
I always use a bowline for this, have for as long as I can remember.
http://www.apparent-wind.com/knots/bowline/ -
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Posted: Sep 01, 2015 - 07:39 PM
That's what I was using but on my last outing in pretty rough weather my righting line tied to dolphin striker via a bowline became untied. I've always heard a bowline can come apart when not under tension but this was the first time I actually experienced it.
I switched to anchor hitch with overhand knot in tail and it seems ultra secure. -
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Posted: Sep 01, 2015 - 08:30 PM
I am not familiar with the anchor knot's performance, but would suspect both it and the bowline would benefit from having the bitter end seized.
Regards,
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Ted
Hobie 16
South Carolina Lake sailing
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Posted: Sep 02, 2015 - 12:29 AM
Growing up in the Rockies, & doing technical climbs as a young man, this was THE PRIMARY reason a bowline was never used as a life line knot. A double bowline was acceptable.
Once you hang on the wire a few minutes, (using any "knot holding" line, like Sta Set etc)the anchor knot pulls tight. No matter how hard we beat the boats, they have never worked loose, either as actual anchor hitches on power boats, or dog bones.
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Hobie 18 Magnum
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Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
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Posted: Sep 03, 2015 - 04:29 PM
I'll look into using the anchor knot for my righting line. I've had that come loose too, also with a bowline. The traps have never though, but I always keep them really tight. I'll replace two knots and compare.
Looks like the anchor hitch with a stopper is a better option then. -
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Posted: Sep 03, 2015 - 06:36 PM
Overhand knot also works in the tail end of a bowline to help keep it from working loose when not under tension. We do this all the time when securing the ends of the downhaul line to the shrouds. A couple wraps of tape also go a long way for securing any knot you want to be permanent.
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Posted: Sep 03, 2015 - 08:14 PM
The key to any knot holding is setting it under stress, and using rope that takes a set. Edchris' comment is applicable to a number of knots, including the bowline.
When you cut your line, use heat (flame) to mushroom the end. After you tie the knot, put a working load on it to set the knot. Get it tight. On an anchor knot or bowline, this means the mushroomed end is up against the knot. My dogbones have been tied this was for decades without failure. I was ocean sailing a few weeks ago and a bowline I tied on a retaining line (but did not set with force) came apart while I was sailing. My fault, not the knot's.
That said, firemen and climbers here tie a slightly different bowline. Imagine that the "rabbit" goes around the tree the other way, and the bitter end ends up on the outside of the knot instead of in the loop. They use a long tail, and tie several overhand knots with it around the loop. This is off track, and not intended to be a solution for you. Apologies. My $0.02.
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Sheet In!
Bob
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Prindle 18-2 #244 "Wakizashi"
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AZ Multihull Fleet 42 member
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Posted: Nov 01, 2015 - 04:18 PM
I've always tied a bowline with the tag outside the loop, made more sense to me. -
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Posted: Nov 02, 2015 - 09:48 AM
bowlines can fail when there is loading and unloading (like a boat on anchor ) -
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Posted: Nov 02, 2015 - 01:20 PM
I just splice mine in place. -
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Posted: Nov 02, 2015 - 07:12 PM
even though 8 and 12 strand is very easy to splice, most cat sailors i personally know don't know how to use a splice
I can use a fid (or wire) but prefer the Toss wand. it works very well
http://www.briontoss.com/catalog/kits.html
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Posted: Nov 02, 2015 - 08:51 PM
+1
Another option, what I do on the end of my tramp tension line,(slippery hi tech line), is to pull it in a favourable direction, the apply a zip tie.
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Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
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Posted: Nov 02, 2015 - 11:35 PM
In that case I would suggest encouraging people to learn. I figure it takes me less than 5 minutes to eye splice dyneema, and most of that is just looking for where I last left my splicing kit. Relying on knots in dyneema is just poor practice. -
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Posted: Oct 02, 2016 - 02:13 AM
The Bowline is inadequate.
Earlier today I left one of the four trapeze dog-bones from my F-20 cat at the bottom of the lake, after the bowline undid itself three seconds after I got on trap. Crew sailed away, capsized, turtled, and had to wait till I was deposited back aboard. In the process I also broke the 10 foot telescoping hot-stick.
I will be replacing all the small lines that tie to the dog-bones with something nicer than cheap west marine 1/4 inch line and will definitely be splicing the ends.
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Small sailboat designer, builder, and Cat Sailor. 8' Keelboat, Hobie Fox,Prindle 16.
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Posted: Oct 02, 2016 - 01:48 PM
Wow, glad I read this! Thanks again Ed for another knot, and may try my hand at some splices. I've been using bowline knots as long as I can remember for many applications. I never dropped off, but this old dog can always use a new trick.
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Tom
NACRA 5.7 (1984 Sail 181)
Pennsylvania
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