Can anyone give me detailed specs on the wire lines on an old hobie 16 (non comptip mast) and good rope sizes and lengths.
Im sailing on the uber cheap and more recreation for me and the family (mostly freshwater) and I'm pretty sure before i drop this boat in the water i need to refit it. Bought it last friday on the cheap, $500. Tramp has seen much better days. Missing a couple parts (triple block, forestay adjuster, step kit broken, no trapeze. may be others). But came with trailer. Has a couple small dings in the hulls one each hull bout the size of a nickle (very patchable) and no soft spots.
I got it to learn on and play with. And i dont have wads to spend. (Boating and camping are much cheaper summer fun when ya got 4 kids less than 12yrs old.
Oh yeah Alabama here Birmingham area. I do make trips to Florida panhandle for work around once a month.
Hobie 16 rigging cheaper to make own wire lines?
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Posted: Apr 20, 2016 - 03:49 AM
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Posted: Apr 20, 2016 - 09:12 AM
I hope this doesn't overwhelm you but these are the specs Hobie gives. If you are sure the standing rigging needs replacing you can get some good use-able standing rigging on Ebay for a reasonable price, but even new isn't particularly expensive given the peace of mind it gives. I think in the end you are not really saving anything by making them yourself.
If you need me to explain what some of this is I would be happy to.
HOBIE 16
Pigtail Thimble both ends 5/32 7x19 6"
Forestay - Lower Thimble both ends 1/8 1x19 17' 6"
Bridle Thimble both ends 1/8 1x19 3' 8 1/4"
Shroud Thimble both ends 1/8 1x19 18' 11" (4/95)
Main Halyard (Non CompTip) C/L Shkle to near side stop 15 5/8" 3/32 7x7 25' 7 3/4"
Jib Halyard C/L Shackle to downhaul block 1/8 7x19 16' 7 3/4"
Trapwire Thimble, stops and handles 3/32 1x19 16' 9 1/8"
Jib Luff Wire / 16 Race Thimble both ends 1/8 7/19 15’ 8 1/2”
Jib Luff Wire / 16 Rec Thimble both ends 1/8 7/19 16’ 9 1/2 “
Your main sheet will be 3\8 inch rope about 40 feet. Your jib sheet will be 5/16 inch rope around 30 feet. Forestay adjuster and mast step link are cheap. If you have help you can raise the mast without it but may as well order one. If you are in the Panhandle Key Sailing in Pensacola can get you any parts you need.
Not encouraging you to open a floodgate on your wallet but good parts really make the boat much more enjoyable and in the end are cheaper as you are not replacing them as often. But by all means get her on the water and sail her before you make any major purchases.
I live in Tallahassee and have 2 beachcats south of here on the coast, one is a Hobie 16, if you ever want to come by and see how mine are rigged, or better yet, take her for a spin. I feel I have done a good job keeping an old boat fast and durable without being a money pit
Edited by jalex on Apr 20, 2016 - 11:04 AM. -
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Posted: Apr 20, 2016 - 02:39 PM
Well it's always going to be cheaper to not pay for labor. There's not as much money to save on H16 standing rigging because it comes standard with thimble fittings which are cheap to make. On my H18 though it uses a bunch of marine eye fittings that on their own are 10 times the cost of a thimble and can only be pressed on by a large rigging shop. When I converted my rigging back to thimbles I was able to do complete rigging including trapeze wires, excluding diamonds for a little over 100 bucks buying the uncoated cable and sleeves from salty dog. Excluding the cost of the crimp swager that I already had.
All in all it was about 1/4 the cost of buying new and a warm fuzzy feeling inside. -
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Posted: Apr 22, 2016 - 04:33 AM
Jalex im not fully getting the dimensions.
5/32 7X19 6". I get the 5/32 is wire size and the 6 inches but whats the 7x19 -
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Posted: Apr 22, 2016 - 06:30 AM
Cheap, cheap, cheap, yea we get it.
I guarantee you're not going to give a rat's behind how many pennies you saved when your home-brew wire rigging fails and the mast comes down on one of your kids.
Some things are not worth being cheap about and are better off left to professionals who build rigging every day using the correct, industrial grade equipment. Buy quality standing rigging from a reputable source and be cheap elsewhere.
My 2 cents...
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Edited by Dogboy on Apr 22, 2016 - 06:36 AM. -
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Posted: Apr 22, 2016 - 07:54 AM
7x19 is not a dimension but refers to the number of strands of small wire used to make the final wire. If you decide to make your own who ever you buy the wire from should be familiar with 7x19 and 1x19 types. I would just order a whole set for a little over $100 and go sailing -
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Posted: Apr 22, 2016 - 04:11 PM
Built my own shrouds and one came apart on the maiden voyage at the first puff. Way more costly than buying a stock set.
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Mark Hirte
Nacra 5.0 1983 - (1st cat)
Deerfield, Il
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Posted: Apr 22, 2016 - 08:04 PM
Making your own rigging is not too hard or difficult. You would need the correct crimpers and an appropriate go-no go gauge.
However, Salty Dog marine sold me H16 rigging for $109. I would do that again in a heartbeat over making my own.
In a pinch, West Marine made me rigging for a Hobie Getaway. It was not as cheap as salty dog, but still half the price of Hobie.
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Posted: Apr 22, 2016 - 09:22 PM
Not that hard or difficult...maybe. But it still has to be done RIGHT. Stainless steel wire rope is very strong stuff, but it loses a huge amount of its strength when discontinuities, imperfections, or damage are introduced from improper swaging of end fittings. The professional shops have the equipment and know how to build and test wire rigging that the average home builder just doesn't have. A basic hand swage tool is simply not going to produce the same product as a professional hydraulic swaging equipment. The pro shops also have the know how and tools to properly inspect and proof test wire rope assemblies - something that home builders simply can not do.
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Posted: Apr 23, 2016 - 10:59 AM
Well a hydraulic swage literally is a different product so yes it's different but more professional is not true since professional shops use thimble fittings as well. However a h16 doesn't have any hydraulic fittings on its rigging, minus diamonds id guess, so is it unsafe to use the same nicopress ittings any professional shop would use? A h18 had many hydraulic fittings that I switched to nicopress. If we are talking hydraulic vs thimble it doesn't matter since the h18 has thimble nicopress ends already on the top of each shroud end and on both sides of the forestay pig tail so it's clearly not a matter of strength, safety, or professionalism.
And as far as nicopress fittings go it's well within the ability of the average DIY guy to do, in fact it's really hard to screw one up. I mean really, show me a "pro" nicopress operator. Lol it's just a crimper. I've done tons of them and have gotten faster but quality wise there's not a whole lot you can do besides the correct number of crimps.
And I don't know about everyone else's equipment but the bench swage I use came with a go no go gauge for testing the finished fitting. It's really hard to do a complete crimp and mess it up in my opinion.
I think there's a stigma around rigging like there's some black magic involved. Maybe one mans definition of what expert knowledge and skill is differs from mine but stuffing a cable in a fitting and pressing go on the swage machine or looping a cable and going crimp crimp doesn't exactly qualify as an unachievable ability in my book... I don't know. I've just never considered any of the work or things I've made myself as evidence of being cheap. What happened to America? Go learn, build, and believe in yourself.
As for testing go lightly tow a car with it and see if the cable slips in the fitting at all. I just go winch my truck up a slight incline with the cable for peace of mind. My 5/32 rigging has a 3300lb breaking strength so that's a good % of load.
Maybe I'll send off an extra cable I make to a materials testing lab and have them break it just for the heck of it
Edited by tamumpower1 on Apr 23, 2016 - 12:04 PM. -
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Posted: Apr 23, 2016 - 01:06 PM
Not black magic, but definitely some tricks to the process and you have to be fairly meticulous to get a good one. I've built my own cable assemblies (not for standing rigging) and have also worked with the guys in our company who build wire rope assemblies. It has to be done right and it's not that hard to screw one up when you're first learning. When the OP asks a question and doesn't even know the difference between 7x19 and 1x19 wire rope, he obviously has zero experience building cable assemblies. Learning how to build your first cable assemblies by starting with the standing rigging for your beach cat just so you can save a few bucks, not a good idea IMO. Not a good ratio of risk to reward being cheap here.
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Posted: Apr 23, 2016 - 02:53 PM
I agree, on a 16 where a full rigging set is cheap because its all thimble OEM maybe not. -
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Posted: Jun 23, 2020 - 08:29 PM
Anyone have a good system for getting 1x19 to wrap around the thimble? I can get them just about right, but the transfer to the nicopress crimper, it backs off 1/8 inch and messes up the operation. I tried a little wood working clamp, and a needle nosed vice grip, both are hard to manage.
I tried using a piece of 1/4 inch steel tube to help prebend, then shove it into a deep socket about 3/4 inch, to temp hold it. It get me close. Good thing I have the right crimp tool, extra nicopress sleeves, and 30 extra feet of wire rope for practice.
Thanks in advance guys.
John
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John
Nacra 5.0
CT
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Posted: Jun 23, 2020 - 08:35 PM
Found this on Bosun Supplies, good idea about the pre crimp.
Nicopress fittings are wonderfully convenient, but can involve some wrestling during setup. The end is threaded through one side of the fitting, bent to form an eye, then threaded back through on the other side of the fitting. The wrestling comes when you’re trying to hold the end so that it projects just slightly beyond the end of the fitting, while you pull on the standing part to snug the eye down around the thimble. Further wrestling ensues when you try to hold the entire spring-load assembly still while you crimp the fitting. To eliminate both problems, lightly crimp the corner of the fitting where the end projects, while the eye is still loose. Use a vise, pliers, Visegrips, etc. With the end locked in place, it’s easy to adjust and hold eye size while pressing.
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John
Nacra 5.0
CT
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Posted: Jun 24, 2020 - 01:52 PM
One trick, assuming you’re using a hand swaging tool, is to use a bench vice to hold one of the arms of the swage tool. This leaves you with one hand to hold the wire assembly and the other hand to operate the tool. Without a vice, you need two hands to operate the swage tool and so the wire and thimble move around when you go to operate the tool.
Otherwise, use a pair of needle nose pliers to hold the assembly how you want it before swaging.
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Posted: Jun 24, 2020 - 07:18 PM
Vice is a good trick.
I found the mcmaster thimbles are a tad too long. Cutting them back helped. I pre crimped the terminal end, put the thimble over a bolt in tje bench, then pulled it tight with rubber sheet covered vice grips. Tje cable would get slack a bit in the transfer to the vice mounted crimper, so i would touch the jaws to the copper, and pull the slack out.
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John
Nacra 5.0
CT
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Posted: Aug 16, 2021 - 05:32 PM
Thank you! just helped me 5 years later
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Dan McNichol
Hobie 16 1983
South Jersey
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