Geezer Noob - A Cat?
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Posted: Sep 27, 2016 - 02:04 PM
I'm 69, fairly fit (I still wake surf and standup paddleboard) and would like to sail something somewhat exciting but reasonable for my age and abilities. I did some beachcat sailing 45 years ago but honestly don't remember much. I found a reasonably priced A-Cat; the light weight of the boat and especially the mast appeal to me but I'm concerned it will be more boat than I can handle. I'll be trailer launching from a ramp not from the beach. Any advice appreciated. -
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Posted: Sep 27, 2016 - 03:18 PM
I have talked to a few folks about this platform but not sailed one...my read is they are lots of fun to sail, also easy to rig and sail but hard to sail well or race. Depending on your interest you could just get a cheap older one and have a blast sailing a light, fast carbon boat, maybe with alloy beams and carbon mast or invest more in a more recent full carbon one and be able to upgrade to foils later. It all depends on budget and ability to deal with a light raunchy boat that you might go over with quite a bit early on. It's certainly not for the light hearted...
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Marek
1992 Prindle 19
1981 Prindle 16
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Posted: Sep 27, 2016 - 03:44 PM
Stand-up paddleboarding is not a sign of fitness in my book. Can you right it from capsize & get back on the boat is the proper test. Pete -
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Posted: Sep 27, 2016 - 03:52 PM
Thanks. I doubt I'll ever want to upgrade to foils but this is an all carbon boat. I'm just looking to have some fun on the water with something I can manage on land by myself. I've also looked at a Weta and it looks like it would fit the bill, but is more expensive, heavier and looks like it would take longer to rig; it would allow additional crew at times. My ability to deal with a light raunchy boat and right it after the inevitable is definitely suspect. :) -
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Posted: Sep 27, 2016 - 04:07 PM
righting it should work ok, at 170lbs it's really light. The real problem is it's a slippery eel...i.e. you get knocked off and the boat just sailed off without you. Might require some kind of tether. Then getting back on could be another challenge. At about
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Marek
1992 Prindle 19
1981 Prindle 16
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Posted: Sep 27, 2016 - 04:20 PM
I have both a weta and an A-cat. If it's blowing under 15, then the A-Cat is the choice, over 15 then the Weta. Both take about the same amount of time to rig and launch. The Weta is fun, but nothing beats the sensation of sailing the A. The golden rule of sailing the A, is never cleat the main, and never turn loose of the mainsheet (most A's don't even have a cleat on the main). If you capsize, the boat will not get away from you if you still have the mainsheet in your hand. -
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Posted: Sep 27, 2016 - 07:25 PM
look up USA A-Cat and International A-Cat sites for more info. There's also a couple of FB pages and then videos that can give a good idea what you might be getting into.
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Marek
1992 Prindle 19
1981 Prindle 16
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Posted: Sep 27, 2016 - 10:45 PM
No experience with an a but do with a weta. Light, easy to rig, easy to manhandle, nearly impossible to capsize and pretty quick. I would and did change some of the stock connections for the standing rigging to something quicker and less hassle than knots. A hinged mast step is a good investment for an older boat. The a cat is good as long as your health and fitness are pretty stable. You could sail the wetA even if you develops a few health problems along the way. Something to consider if you are in your 60s or in you mid 40s like me.
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Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Posted: Sep 28, 2016 - 06:53 AM
Love the thread title!
Any where near you that people launch from? Helping rig would be good experience.
Renting a Wave if you can get to a resort town would be a good fitness test, for short money.
We have lots of hands to help with the masts, but a gin pole may solve part of your issues.
Welcome back!
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John
Nacra 5.0
CT
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Posted: Sep 28, 2016 - 11:39 AM
Thanks! For all the tips and suggestions. The Weta has been on my radar for a while and I'll hopefully be going on a test sail this weekend. If all goes well, I'll probably go that route for now, with the thought of picking up an A in the future for those light days, like mikekrantz. I have kids, grandkids and great grandkids that I want to get sailing, so I can never have too many boats. :) -
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Posted: Sep 28, 2016 - 04:01 PM
Mike has a better perspective than most, but I can say the A is on par or faster than the best of the modern multihulls (F18, N20 etc.). The weta, not so much, we generally lap them when sailed on the same course even in medium breeze (8 or so). Yes, the Weta has plenty of other merits; its more robust, new they are about the price as an A, far higher load capacity (I'd be hesitant to sail with other than a small child as a passenger on an A, the structure is designed for one 200lb adult and that's about it), and as Mike pointed out, much more fun to sail in breeze. At least on the U.S East Coast, the days where the wind is sufficient for happy Weta sailing are much lower than the days where its sufficient for happy A-cat sailing, and even an older straight boarded boat is still an excellent ride!!! -
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Posted: Sep 28, 2016 - 04:03 PM
Mike has a better perspective than most, but I can say the A is on par or faster than the best of the modern multihulls (F18, N20 etc.). The weta, not so much, we generally lap them when sailed on the same course even in medium breeze (8 or so). Yes, the Weta has plenty of other merits; its more robust, new they are about the price as an A, far higher load capacity (I'd be hesitant to sail with other than a small child as a passenger on an A, the structure is designed for one 200lb adult and that's about it), and as Mike pointed out, much more fun to sail in breeze. At least on the U.S East Coast, the days where the wind is sufficient for happy Weta sailing are much lower than the days where its sufficient for happy A-cat sailing, and even an older straight boarded boat is still an excellent ride!!! -
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Posted: Sep 28, 2016 - 07:02 PM
In my opinion, the A-class is a fantastic RACE BOAT. If you want a single handed race boat, look no further.
If racing is not on your mind, its probably not the boat for you.
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Greenville SC
Offering sails and other go fast parts for A-class catamarans
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Posted: Sep 28, 2016 - 08:18 PM
I am a bit interested in this platform but consider myself a pleasure sailor so curious why you thought it's more suitable for racing than for recreational sailing. I mean you could just go out there and simply spend some time on the wire and get a kick out of it, no?
Edited by marekli on Sep 28, 2016 - 08:20 PM.
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Marek
1992 Prindle 19
1981 Prindle 16
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Posted: Sep 28, 2016 - 09:11 PM
Yea there was a group of weta boats I ran against recently. They went pretty good but when we both put the spinnakers up they didn't do as well. That short mast doesn't allow that big of a sail for downwind but I still thought the boats were cool and pretty compact. Looked like they would be a blast in heavy air -
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Posted: Sep 28, 2016 - 09:30 PM
Sure you can, but there are some downsides.
In my opinion, its not safe to sail the boat without at least one other person on the water with you. I think most of my peers would agree. If you capsize this boat and let go of it, even for a moment, your in BIG trouble. It will blow away on its side in a heart beat, you can forget about swimming and catching it. This has happened a few times this year in regattas. In those cases there was somebody nearby to help out. If your on the water by yourself.....
You cannot turn your back on the beach while the main is hoisted.
You cannot take a friend.
They tend to be somewhat fragile compared to most beachcats.
Don't get me wrong the A is a fantastic boat, but it's very different from most of the boat we commonly discuss on this site.
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Greenville SC
Offering sails and other go fast parts for A-class catamarans
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Posted: Sep 29, 2016 - 12:54 PM
I have to weigh in a little on the A cat.
You won't be the oldest person at an A cat race! There are a lot of older sailors at those events and they do pretty well. I think that the primary attraction for them is that everything is light and you can set it up yourself.
Launching an A at a ramp isn't the easiest thing to do, but you can make it work. the times I took my A out at a ramp, I had a small anchor with a float on it that I set out in the water, then I launched the boat and hooked it to the anchor line then went back and parked the trailer and moved the wheels. I would then go back out to the boat and push the sail up and get going. Getting out of the water is the opposite and you can pull the sail down so the boat is easier to handle. It is very difficult to step the mast on the trailer, we generally set them up on the grass then wheeled them to the water.
the A class is the best single handed sailing experience there is! If you just want to go out sailing, you can have a lot of fun! In that case, I would look for an older A with straight boards. They are pretty simple and set up easily. Once you start getting into curved boards, winglets and other mods, they get a little more difficult.
They are delicate boats, but they are also very durable. The above posters are right about the boat sailing away from you on its side--I have been there, too. But they are easy to right. They pitchpole down wind and you can break your mast, but you really have to be pushing it.
I guess my feeling on the A is that you don't get worn out setting up the boat and moving it around before you even get on the water!
I have sailed on a Weta and they are a completely different animal. Great boats, just a different program. -
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Posted: Sep 29, 2016 - 12:56 PM
I have to weigh in a little on the A cat.
You won't be the oldest person at an A cat race! There are a lot of older sailors at those events and they do pretty well. I think that the primary attraction for them is that everything is light and you can set it up yourself.
Launching an A at a ramp isn't the easiest thing to do, but you can make it work. the times I took my A out at a ramp, I had a small anchor with a float on it that I set out in the water, then I launched the boat and hooked it to the anchor line then went back and parked the trailer and moved the wheels. I would then go back out to the boat and push the sail up and get going. Getting out of the water is the opposite and you can pull the sail down so the boat is easier to handle. It is very difficult to step the mast on the trailer, we generally set them up on the grass then wheeled them to the water.
the A class is the best single handed sailing experience there is! If you just want to go out sailing, you can have a lot of fun! In that case, I would look for an older A with straight boards. They are pretty simple and set up easily. Once you start getting into curved boards, winglets and other mods, they get a little more difficult.
They are delicate boats, but they are also very durable. The above posters are right about the boat sailing away from you on its side--I have been there, too. But they are easy to right. They pitchpole down wind and you can break your mast, but you really have to be pushing it.
I guess my feeling on the A is that you don't get worn out setting up the boat and moving it around before you even get on the water!
I have sailed on a Weta and they are a completely different animal. Great boats, just a different program. -
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Posted: Sep 29, 2016 - 06:29 PM
there's various manufacturers, older designs notably Marstrom, Boyer, A3, Evo, recently DNA and eXploder (foiling)...Morelli & Melvin in Newport Beach had a hand in designing the A3. Same company that also worked on designs for Nacra20Carbon and F18Infusions. Then there's very few rule restrictions...
http://www.a-cat.org/sites/default/files/ISAF%20A%20CAT%20rules%202010_0_0.pdf
length, minimum weight, width, sail area and within that framework sailors can improvise.
Edited by marekli on Sep 29, 2016 - 06:43 PM.
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Marek
1992 Prindle 19
1981 Prindle 16
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Posted: Oct 03, 2016 - 09:33 PM
I am way older than Dan Berger and just sailed my near-new eXploder in the WildCat Regatta at Lake Eustis, FL. It was light just like last year. An 81 year old guy won one of the races in light air. Laura Muma sailed very well & won 2nd place overall...she admits to 125 pounds. The winner, my buddy & boat designer& fixer OH Rodgers is over 60.
Every time I have to move my A-cat my back says thank you very much! 175 pounDs won't kill you if your beach wheels are present. The carbon mast weighs 22 pounds, which is wonderful to raise comapred to the cast iron ones. Hey these are 21st century boats- NOT FIBERGLASS 500 pound back-killers. I have been there, and these little boats are wonderful in comparison, making those slow cats look and feel slow. I have 2 beginner A-cats for sale cheap, my buddies here learned on them, so the masts come prebroken and repaired. This was a problem early on- after 2 years sailing, masts are RARELY broken. Both these boats were damaged by a big tree, but don't leak. I have pix of these at catcobbler.com also see dacarls@gmail.com. I will get these on line here if I can make this site work. Old guys need old boats to start. Everybody needs a buddy to sail with, as deployment of a drogue/ little chute is possible but I've never seen one used on purpose. Warren, one of our A-cat sailors, had his drogue fall out of the tramp and deploy at speed, and Warren went for quite a flight right in front of me.
DAve CArlson A-class USA 196, 747, 171, 54, one woodie Acat with hydrofoils, 1 Hobie16, 1 Hobie18.
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