How did you mount your electric winch on your trailer?
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Posted: Oct 04, 2016 - 03:52 PM
i am not an engineer (nor trying to be argumentative) i would hypothesize the higher the winch is up the post changes the location of the effort / strain
I.E. ceteris paribus...
if you have a 6' post and place the winch (or block) at the very top the post will fail (bend) in the middle
if you have a 6' post and place the winch (or block) at the base of post the post will fail at the base (or attachment point)
assuming 3' is "straight aft"it will fail in the middle (1.5')
you stated that "heavy boats are pulled up the trailer via a winch on a post"... That's a floating boat... doesn't matter how much the boat weighs (to a point) if it is floating...
no one is pulling a powerboat up a beach or onto a trailer using a hand winch
Edited by MN3 on Oct 04, 2016 - 03:59 PM. -
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Posted: Oct 04, 2016 - 04:06 PM
I own a HF BadLands 2500 lb. ATV winch - it has the WORST duty cycle rate (5%) I have ever heard of and due to this , it works for about 45 seconds of use (pulling my 5.5 on a trailer in my yard (with a trailer dolly/wheels attached to the tongue) before going into thermal shutdown for 15 - 20 minutes
"This Winch with a 5% duty cycle at its
maximum load must be allowed to rest for at least
14 minutes, 15 seconds after every 45 seconds of
continuous operation. Failure to carefully observe
duty cycle limitations can easily over-stress a
Winch contributing to premature Winch failure."
http://manuals.harborfrei…ls/61000-61999/61297.pdf (Page 12)
You may want to consider a different brand
Edited by MN3 on Oct 04, 2016 - 04:12 PM. -
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Posted: Oct 05, 2016 - 04:44 PM
Holy crap.
Thanks for the heads up.
45 seconds at about 10 feet per second (with 500 lb load rating implied in their chart) is 7.5 feet of travel.
I could neither raise the mast nor pull the boat up on trailer in 7.5 feet, then have to wait 14 minutes to continue.
Even at no load and 13.5 feet per second, the task may not be done when it cuts out. Hopefully the load lock works during shutdown.
Even with this short operating cycle, it may be enough to get the mast mostly upright, and the cat on the four rollers, just not a completed job in either case. Finishing the job manually after the help through the hard part is better than what I am doing now, but that is too many maybes. I will investigate a better duty cycle if I am going to put the money out for this project.
Thanks MN3!
Bob
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Posted: Oct 06, 2016 - 10:20 AM
:) - glad to help -
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Posted: Oct 06, 2016 - 01:05 PM
What am I missing? Isn't 10 feet per second for 45 seconds equal to 450 feet?
Ah, I looked at the chart. It's ft per minute, not second
Edited by tnell on Oct 06, 2016 - 01:08 PM.
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Tim
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Posted: Oct 06, 2016 - 09:44 PM
Yeah, my bad.
Thank you for the correction. :)
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Posted: Oct 07, 2016 - 09:42 AM
I know a few people on this forum use this (or similar model) winch to pull their cats out of the water, or up a bank and seem to have little or no "duty cycle" issues
The 1 time i tried to use the winch ...
I was goofing around with it for a little bit prior to use with no load but was running it to "cleanly" reeve the cable
when i did hook it up to the trailer just a few min later (not giving it much time to rest..) it was not a "clean" (straight) pull, and the fairlead was not in place, and i was having issues so the loads were not constant..
I would guesstimate i was able to move the boat/trailer about 50' before it shut down
This was in the middle of summer here in fla (aka the sun) and it was hot and muggy ... i am sure that all added to the ridiculously poor results i had -
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Posted: Oct 08, 2016 - 08:12 PM
Agreed.
A gin pole can be mounted on the mast itself, or anywhere between the mast and winch, adding favorable leverage to the situation.
So gin poles come in a myriad of lengths, configurations, and applications.
Some have pulleys for the lifting line, some have yolks that simply lift the mast into a more favorable position.
I have found a marine winch that has a favorable run cycle and speed. Doing further research now, will update in a bit.
Edited by klozhald on Oct 08, 2016 - 08:29 PM.
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AZ Multihull Fleet 42 member
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Posted: Oct 08, 2016 - 10:18 PM
Kloz,
I was just trying to figure out what I was missing there. I'm glad you pointed that duty cycle issue. I'm not planning to go electric but it's good info to have
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Tim
Collierville (Memphis), TN
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Posted: Oct 08, 2016 - 11:28 PM
I mounted a version of a gin pole that's commercially available on my P16 last year. It works fine but in the end I found it's easier for me to raise the mast single handed. With a little practice it works no problem.
On my P19 (and possibly also on the P18-2) there's a new problem b/c of the 90degree mast rotation on this specific model so the forestay when connected to the winch line runs at an angle to the mast in the horizontal plane which induces a strong pull to the side. My initial trial with the e-winch failed for this reason and the mast went sideways over my head. I learned a couple of things though: A) it's quite a hazardous procedure..... B) as a few mentioned there's a lot of stress on material, wires and load BUT the cheap HF e-winch should work if I pick up a good fraction of the lifting load when supporting the vertical mast movement.
I am not sure whether the pull to the side can be successfully countered when the mast goes up further next time. I made the mistake not to mount the tramp with a ladder set up by the rear beam to get to that part. I doubt bungee cords will do the trick. Maybe a gin pole would help. I am not quite done with testing my initial set up. More after my shoulder has recovered from the tweaking...
Maybe a better solution is just to get a newer style boat with a carbon mast...and avoid any possible accidents at the trailer parking lot?
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Marek
1992 Prindle 19
1981 Prindle 16
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Posted: Oct 09, 2016 - 10:58 AM
Marek, are you stabilizing the mast by tying the trapeze wires to the corners of the front beam? I would think that forming a triangle using 2 trap wires to the front beam, then raising using another trap wire or the forestay might allow for the mast to start upward on its side and rotate to the straight position as the mast is raised. Not sure if the Prindle mast has a pin to capture the mast ball.
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Tom
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Posted: Oct 09, 2016 - 11:14 AM
Tom, that's the way I have it on the P16, there's a bungee on each forward trap wire tied to the forward beam. I have not tested this yet on the P19 but may consider it next time I get around to testing the set up more. It's probably worth adding anyway, there's really no downside.
The mast won't rotate while raising since it's secured via a pin to a bracket at the mast base.
Edited by marekli on Oct 09, 2016 - 11:17 AM.
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Marek
1992 Prindle 19
1981 Prindle 16
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Posted: Oct 09, 2016 - 03:56 PM
I can get a pic of my setup, I use the trap wires to to pull the mast up.The winch has a remote.I set the mast on the base ball with the other end on a 6 to 8 ft ladder.The mast support on the trailer has a telescoping inner piece to get the angle right. I get on the tramp and use the remote to lift the mast helped by me keeping it centered.I can do the p19 and B-lion mast solo this way.Cat has to face into the wind.
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Posted: Oct 09, 2016 - 04:58 PM
be great if you could post a video pulling up the mast on the P19 for us...
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Marek
1992 Prindle 19
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Posted: Oct 09, 2016 - 11:48 PM
I am setting up the B-lion on friday and will make a vid
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Posted: Oct 10, 2016 - 09:38 AM
I'm in need of a system as well ..I've got a 1986 P19 & am following this thread. Im vertically challenged at 5"4 & have a bad back. I've got an EZ up gin pole but haven't tried it yet.
had our first sail with it last Wed but had plenty of help to get the mast up.
Like Marekli , the P19 mast is rotated 90 degrees & pinned at the mast base but pulling from the fore stay or trap wire seems like it would put on a side load.
I've thought about using two trap wires & wrapping one around the back side so it comes around the mast so it would be pulled from both sides but I'm afraid it would slide down the mast a bit & scratch it up
Can't wait to see Carl's video.. thanks for doing this!
My name's Carl as well
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Posted: Oct 10, 2016 - 02:53 PM
I agree, the rotated mast on the Prindle 19 throws quite a wrench in the mix.... when I initially tested it, it didn't seem a huge problem when the mast was further down. I wonder how that goes though when the mast is further up since the support person loses leverage as he walks it up on the tramp to the forward beam. It may all come down to following a simple, safe and sound protocol with checks and balances...maybe it takes a few practice runs with a helper before doing it at a busy parking lot.
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Marek
1992 Prindle 19
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Posted: Oct 29, 2016 - 12:19 PM
OK here we go first time video.I have used this setup on the P19 also.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HCa_zn3BB8
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Carl
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Posted: Oct 29, 2016 - 06:41 PM
Looks like you got it figured out, do you think that winch will be ok exposed to the elements all the time?
What is your boat? The video says "B-Line" is it the B-Class B-Lion in your sig? Does it fold like this? Always thought that was a good solution to wide boats, but how hard is it to do?
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Posted: Oct 29, 2016 - 09:28 PM
I got around the hassel of attaching the forstay bridle by making the connections at the bow chain plates. Granted it's two connections but their right at waist level and you're not trying to hold anything up while making the shackle. I dig the rig.
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