This boat looks amazing! Thoughts? Looks like old news is getting newer. I can feel a lot of cat entheusists pulling back and want to keep their boats and investments relevant but 10 years from now I feel a non foiling beach cat might be a relec.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmRTZik0Vf8
Edited by fxloop on Nov 17, 2016 - 11:51 PM.
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Tim Grover
1996 Hobie Miracle 20
Two Hobie 14's
1983 G-Cat Restored
Memphis TN / North Mississippi
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FULL foiling for $18k Stunt S9. super light weight!
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Posted: Nov 17, 2016 - 09:52 PM
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Posted: Nov 18, 2016 - 11:44 AM
The foiling stuff is cool. I would love to give it a try. Reality though is that it is along the lines of "I would like to try kite boarding" too. Is it really practical for most of us? Most of our sailing is really in lighter air. Every blue moon we will get big wind. However, in big wind most folks do not got out as they sail it so infrequently that it is survival rather than enjoyment. The learning curve to be foiling is a bit like kite boarding at this point. I just do not see a beginning sailor starting out on a foiling cat. I have worked with a lot of beginners on catamarans, and I can tell you they have their hands full with a basic cat.
Now, if you can foil this boat easily without having to go out on the wire, maybe some older folks could pick it up. However, if we circle back to typical sailing conditions it is too light of air to get up on foils. Again, the basic cat is all you need to have fun sailing. I still wish they get this all figured out before I get too old. This one looks like it has great potential with the wand. -
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Posted: Nov 18, 2016 - 04:57 PM
I have been watching the development of foiling very closely for years. I tried a friends Moth 2 years ago and found it impossible. It was like riding a unicycle with a square wheel. I got a chance to get on a foiling A Cat this year and it was much more fun but still not practical for a "regular" sailor.
The first practical foiling boat I have seen is the UFO developed by the Clark family:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsOTjI7wi7Y
Some are predicting it is the next sunfish. I have heard the complete package is under 8K. -
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Posted: Nov 21, 2016 - 10:36 AM
No Sooner did I write what was needed for foiling to be brought to everyone then someone does it.
http://www.foiling101.com/
This looks like it might work -
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Posted: Nov 21, 2016 - 11:29 AM
I'll tell you in a month how it works when mine arrives. Pete -
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Posted: Nov 21, 2016 - 12:05 PM
The S9 is a ton of fun! There is a learning curve due to differences between how we're used to a beach cat responding and how the foilers respond, but it is totally do-able.
I've not talked to Michele in a couple of weeks, but I'm told that there are a couple of foiling "kits" coming for the S9, one for light air and one for speed. I guess we'll know when the next container arrives in a week or so; think they will just be simple T-foil swaps.
Someone here locally has two S9's and has purchased a UFO, will be interesting to see them side-by-side. -
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Posted: Nov 21, 2016 - 03:28 PM
Interesting news Pete, looking forward to your reports.
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Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN
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Posted: Nov 21, 2016 - 03:39 PM
Hey Will, you can probably judge better than most folks, what do you think about the practical aspects of dealing with a foiler like the S9 that uses large T-Foil daggers?
I'm talking about launching and landing from unfriendly shorelines or surf, as well as sailing them in areas with things like seaweed in the water. Also when I look at these I wonder about handling them from a muddy, debris-strewn shoreline like my local lake.
Am I wrong that these T-Foil boats have to have the dagger(s) inserted from the bottom and while they might pull up tight to the hull they still have the wide horizontal sections (with trim flaps) sticking out.
I know it's all still evolving and I haven't had hands-on with any of the new designs so trying to figure it all out.
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Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN
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Posted: Nov 21, 2016 - 06:41 PM
Love what I've seen about the S9. I just got my hands on a Whisper (so as to sail with the family, I _almost_ get an S9
). I can confirm that dealing with the foils is... interesting.
It's early days for me, but here's what I know so far -- the foils stick out enough that you can't dock sideways. Your only option is a friendly, sandy beach. At least at the beginning you'll want to be able to work on the boat a bit with water to your chest (we had to fiddle with rudders, etc).
So far the foils on the Whisper have have proven resilient -- first day out we hit some grassy sandbars.
It's a complication, but we've forgotten the complications we already deal with -- stand the mast, tighten the rigging, dolly the boat around without getting tangled in trees/wires... In my case, it'll take some time to get used to it, and it does put some extra constraints on launching. At least until I get more practical with this boat.
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Posted: Nov 21, 2016 - 07:31 PM
Martin,
Congratulations on your purchase. The Whisper has intrigued me since its release, mostly due to its low weight for a double handed boat. Would love to see more feedback as you get time on the boat.
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Greenville SC
Offering sails and other go fast parts for A-class catamarans
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Posted: Nov 21, 2016 - 08:28 PM
Damon,
So, I think all of the foiling platforms that aren't the Vampire, or a boat with a top-load foil (A-cat) are going to have the same challenges with foil "handling" so to speak. Beach launches/landings are a bit of a challenge, sail away from the beach slowly for two reasons; first, have to be more careful to not hit anything with the daggers. I suspect that the little bulb on the front of the foils is less forgiving than a typical rounded or blunt dagger board, it would suck to rip a T-foil off and/or break it. Second, with the T-foil on the bottom of the rudder, you can't go very fast with the rudders not locked down... you might rip the T-foil off of the bottom. The vertical dagger style rudder wins in this regard, but pivoting rudders seem to be more convenient.
The S9 can have the foils inserted from the top or bottom, but with a caveat; inserting from the top means sitting and attaching the T-foils.
As far as tying up to a dock or other boat, with the foils up, that's a no-go. Charlie has built a couple of little floating docks out of PVC and padded them with carpet; they tie them to the dock to hold the boats off with the foils up. So long as they are down, you're fine.... assuming that there aren't any mooring cables or other extended structures to hit.
With regards to weeds, there are others who have experience with that, but I personally don't yet. Based on what I've seen and been told, clearing J/L foils is a pain and T's are even worse. Since foiling is more about efficiency than brute power, any additional drag from weeds is a killer. Look at the difference in resistance (and therefore speed) when a boat goes from displacement to foiling mode; since lift/drag vary as the square of the velocity, with the significantly decreased drag profile while foiling, even a little bit of trash on a board/rudder would amount to a significant percentage of the total drag and be a killer to both lift and speed for a beach cat. The systems are more integrated so to speak, add drag from junk on foils, go slower, which adds more drag due to foil lift and/or displacement; it's a big circle. You can really feel the effect of trash on the boards/rudders on the Tornado and the CFR, nice thing is that clearing the boards is a very quick and easy process. Hoping to have more experience foiling in more diverse conditions over the next year...
Since I've sailed at "the butt" plenty of times, that lake would scare me on a foiling boat! Small, muddy, sticks, logs, shallow spots, dead bodies...
I am really curious to see the UFO, not sure when it is supposed to arrive. I think the next batch of S9's will be here this week or next. -
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Posted: Nov 21, 2016 - 10:33 PM
Thank you! I've been posting about it in the technical help forum. For the record, I also like what I see about the S9, and I almost buy one; my decision came down to single-handed vs two-handed. Bring one to Miami and we'll sail them side by side... -
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Posted: Nov 25, 2016 - 05:02 PM
Damon, beach launching here is not optimal, so we launch at a boat ramp directly from a modified A cat trailer (we use a golf cart for launching). We tried temporary docks and such to protect the main foil, but we found that a simple round red fender with a diameter wider than the foil overhang works best. When we launch we walk the boat out the dock, tie it up, rig it fully, release the painter, and off we go! One of us has even foiled out of the marina just a few seconds after releasing - awesome sight! videos here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCaILU7MiEIflYUp-o_SO3TA -
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Posted: Nov 30, 2016 - 04:59 PM
One word of warning regarding the foiling boats, they are far more sensitive to scratches in the foils than your normal beachcat daggerboards/centerboards/rudders. If you scratch them too deeply cavitation can result on the board and that makes foiling more difficult, not unlike having weed on the boards. Its really not a huge issue, just be careful and keep your boards and trunks clean when launching/landing and bagging after sailing. -
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Posted: Dec 01, 2016 - 03:17 PM
Fulcrum Speedworks put this out on their Facebook page.
BIG Website update including a thorough FAQ and detailed description of the stuff that goes into the UFO. Check it out
http://www.fulcrumspeedworks.com/UFO/
Their Facebook page is https://www.facebook.com/fulcrumspeedworks/
Hint the price for the UFO is under $8,000
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Prindle 18 w/ wings, Prindle 16, Prindle 15, current
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Saint Cloud, Florida
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