Looks like I've managed to sail for 20+ years without standing trailer-boat masts. So, trying to catch up...
Are there any good guides on mast-standing tips and tricks? I'm at a point where, with 4 people I can stand the mast on my Whisper (18ft, fairly tall mast) without mishaps. The guy on this video stands a mast solo :-/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxctIJVOAd0
How do I get from here to there?
Once it's up, how do I tighten the shrouds without the whole rig crashing down on me?
Standing / lowering a mast, tightening rig, shorthanded -
-
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: Oct 26, 2016
- Last visit: Nov 04, 2024
- Posts: 233
Posted: Nov 22, 2016 - 10:28 AM
-
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: Mar 19, 2004
- Last visit: Nov 21, 2024
- Posts: 964
Posted: Nov 22, 2016 - 10:58 AM
What type of boat?
If you're able to safely lift the mast solo, then you can usually use one of the halyards to tied to either the bow tang or the mast stand on your trailer to hold the mast up while you pin the forestay. I.e., tie the halyard to the bow tang loosely, raise the mast, tighten the halyard and cleat off securely, then jump down and pin the forestay to the bridle, finally release the halyard.
For tightening the shrouds, you can either put on your trap harness and sit in the trapeze while you adjust the pins, or you can again use the main halyard and mainsheet system to hold the rig up. Connect the main halyard to the end of the boom and hoist the boom up about 3 feet off the rear crossbar and tie off the halyard securely. Then push the boom over to one side of the boat, crank down on the mainsheet and cleat off securely. The shroud will be slack and you can adjust the pins. Once you have the shroud re-pinned, release the mainsheet and tension the other side.
sm -
- Rank: Chief
- Registered: Nov 26, 2009
- Last visit: Aug 10, 2024
- Posts: 2531
Posted: Nov 22, 2016 - 11:02 AM
Lots of sailors here with lots of experience at solo raising, I'm not one of them.
Log in, then select "SEARCH", up near the top, just below the Welcome line.
Type Mast Raise, etc, use a bunch of different terms.
There have been lots of discussions here on techniques.
Quite a few people trailer with the Cat backwards, search that too.
If you have a steep beach,(or any slope)it makes it easier. Once the mast is pushed up, gravity holds it, while you do up pins. I watched one of MN3's friends, who must be almost 60, take down his Nacra 5.0, solo, in just a few minutes using this method
Probably lots over on the Hobie forums too.
Edited by Edchris177 on Nov 22, 2016 - 11:09 AM.
--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
-- -
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: Oct 26, 2016
- Last visit: Nov 04, 2024
- Posts: 233
Posted: Nov 22, 2016 - 11:09 AM
Boat is a White Formula Whisper (see the other thread about it
). Mast is carbon fiber, boat is fiberglass. Mast is pretty tall so when it's low it's heavy and hard to control...
Thanks for those hints. I hadn't thought of using the boom, though the traveler is pretty narrow.
"If you're able to safely lift the mast solo" -- well, I am not. That's where I want to get to -- can you? what's the trick?
-
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: Feb 05, 2011
- Last visit: Jun 15, 2021
- Posts: 575
Posted: Nov 22, 2016 - 11:26 AM
https://shop.hamiltonmari…y45-jUvNACFUhYDQodiVMKzA
Here's how I tighten the shrouds on a SC15.
I tension the trapeze wires to the trailer just forward of the front crossbeam to arrest sway. The crossbeam itself will also serve.
If you're doing this on the trailer, keep the stern tied down!
What an awesome cat by the way. Do keep us posted.
--
'82 Super Cat 15
Hull #315
Virginia
Previously owned: '70 H14, '79 H16, '68 Sailmaster 26, '85 H14T
-- -
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: Oct 26, 2016
- Last visit: Nov 04, 2024
- Posts: 233
Posted: Nov 22, 2016 - 11:55 AM
Love those adjusters! I'll see about getting a pair. Thanks for the praise. I'm still wrestling with getting it sorted so I can get it into the water with minimum fuss. -
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: Feb 05, 2011
- Last visit: Jun 15, 2021
- Posts: 575
Posted: Nov 22, 2016 - 12:21 PM
Keep in mind a Highfield Lever can scrape the area around the chain plate at the hull. Some sort of chafing pad is recommended. Shop around for the levers. I posted the Hamilton page just as a reference.
--
'82 Super Cat 15
Hull #315
Virginia
Previously owned: '70 H14, '79 H16, '68 Sailmaster 26, '85 H14T
-- -
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: Feb 05, 2011
- Last visit: Jun 15, 2021
- Posts: 575
Posted: Nov 22, 2016 - 01:42 PM
So what have you sailed prior to your current cat?
--
'82 Super Cat 15
Hull #315
Virginia
Previously owned: '70 H14, '79 H16, '68 Sailmaster 26, '85 H14T
-- -
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: Aug 18, 2003
- Last visit: Dec 13, 2023
- Posts: 880
Posted: Nov 22, 2016 - 02:38 PM
-
Edited by Andinista on Nov 22, 2016 - 02:58 PM. -
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: Aug 18, 2003
- Last visit: Dec 13, 2023
- Posts: 880
Posted: Nov 22, 2016 - 02:40 PM
-
Edited by Andinista on Nov 22, 2016 - 02:57 PM. -
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: Aug 18, 2003
- Last visit: Dec 13, 2023
- Posts: 880
Posted: Nov 22, 2016 - 02:41 PM
- 5:46 on the video: that is a very weak and dangerous position, maybe safe for a H16 but not for bigger or heavier masts. If you consider something like that, tie that line to a higher position on the mast so that you can grab it from there instead of the beam.
- I once mounted the jibsheet in front for that purpose once, to be able to cleat the line. The cleat was on the trailer beyond my reach. When stepping the mast, one of the shrouds got tangled and I couldn't go all the way. This is pretty common, you just go back a bit, or completely, untangle and continue. The problem is that the line was cleated and the angle of the cleat didn't allow me to uncleat. So I got trapped in a very uncomfortable position.. So make sure it works both ways..
- Wind can be a significant help or additional resistance, depending on how you orient the boat
- Inclination of the boat has a big impact, if tilted down (bows below the sterns) you grab the mast from a higher position, it may not seem significant but you are so close to the mast base that it has a big impact. It can be very hard to raise the mast if the boat is tilted up. It tilted down you can also use gravity to keep the mast up while you step down to secure the stay. That is my preferred method, not always easy to find a spot though.
- One good way how others can help you safely and easily, even a child or a stranger, is using the trailer winch tied to a trap wire, they can take all the load and you just guide the mast up or down, or you can share part of the load too. Just make sure that the hulls are secured to the trailer
Edited by Andinista on Nov 22, 2016 - 02:51 PM. -
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: Aug 18, 2003
- Last visit: Dec 13, 2023
- Posts: 880
Posted: Nov 22, 2016 - 03:09 PM
The most common way to tighten the rig is leaving one shroud loose so that you can pin the forestay easily, and then have your crew apply tension hanging on the trap to pin the shroud in the right hole. If you know the adjustment you can use the mainsheet to tighten the trap, moving the traveler out and securing it there so that it doesn't return to the center unexpectedly. The problem with that is that you cannot feel the tension applied. -
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: Oct 26, 2016
- Last visit: Nov 04, 2024
- Posts: 233
Posted: Nov 22, 2016 - 03:38 PM
Opti, Sunfish, Laser. The rotomolded hobies and a Dart 16 (from rentals or clubs where I didn't have to rig them up). Tons of keeler sailing, 24f to 60f, easy conditions, severe gale conditions (turns out I've sailed in hurricane cat 1 conditions in NZ more than once). Big cats (Leopard 44 in BVI).
I regularly skipper a Jeanneau 409. My 6yo and I sail regularly on a pair of Taz dinghies...
The trailer boats I've rigged up, none of them had shrouds, you'd slot the mast in, and you're done this is quite a bit harder!
-
- Rank: Administrator
- Registered: Jul 19, 2001
- Last visit: Nov 15, 2024
- Posts: 3446
Posted: Nov 22, 2016 - 06:41 PM
Curious how the Whisper assembly manual shows the mast raising process? Is there an online manual? or maybe you could scan or photograph it to share.
--
Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN
How To Create Your Signature
How To Create Your Own Cool Avatar
How To Display Pictures In The Forums.
-- -
- Rank: Administrator
- Registered: Jul 19, 2001
- Last visit: Nov 15, 2024
- Posts: 3446
Posted: Nov 22, 2016 - 06:56 PM
For those that don't know what boat this is
http://www.sailmagazine.c…ats/whisper-foiling-cat/
Curious how the Whisper assembly manual shows the mast raising process? Is there an online manual? or maybe you could scan or photograph it to share.
How does the mast attach at the base to the beam or mast step? Most beachcats either use a pin/hinge or a captive ball arrangement that creates a hinge to push against.
How tall is your mast? 18ft doesn't sound right?
Be Careful Out There! No matter what they told you about the boat being "easy to foil" you have a super high-performance cat on your hands and it sounds like you don't have high-performance dinghy experience. I wouldn't mention this if you were coming from skiff racing or even 470's. But it sounds like you have a large learning curve ahead learning trapeze technique besides the boat.
Have you got really good experienced crew?
--
Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN
How To Create Your Signature
How To Create Your Own Cool Avatar
How To Display Pictures In The Forums.
-- -
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: Oct 26, 2016
- Last visit: Nov 04, 2024
- Posts: 233
Posted: Nov 23, 2016 - 12:20 AM
Hi Damon,
Mast is... 9.5m / 31f. The mast has a captive ball, similar to a Hobie Getaway. When the mast is down, it "slots in" with the mast rotated 90deg. There's no hold-it-in-place mechanism (as seen on the H16 vid), I hold it down manually. Once you get the mast up ~30deg it stops wanting to snap out, and it can rotate to its normal position.
The manual explains the process clearly, but not "efficiently", it shows 4 people around the boat in a picture. Not surprisingly, with 4 I can get the mast up just fine, but I can't always corral such a crowd, and that H16 guy did it solo, ffs
You're right I haven't sailed a modern high performance boat like a 470.
I have sailed a Dart 16 on the wire, singlehanded (for some reason, I end up sailing lots of UK designed boats ), to the point I bought my own trapeze harness. I have no problem with the transition from sitting on the trampoline to being on the wire. Overall power/weight ratio however aren't all that exciting on the Dart 16 without a spinnaker (that's how I sailed it).
Of course this boat has a learning curve for me. That's why I'm posting here and that's half of the fun anyway. Crew has very limited experience on these kind of boats.
On the upside...Biscayne Bay is mellow and forgiving, I know it inside out (tilled it on Hobie Getaways, dinghies and on a 41ft keeler), and my crew are crazy enough to sail with me. If I stay with what I know, how will I learn something new and exciting?
Cheers! ~martin -
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: Aug 18, 2003
- Last visit: Dec 13, 2023
- Posts: 880
Posted: Nov 23, 2016 - 06:46 AM
Cool boat. You need a crew to sail it anyway, two is enough, have him/her pull a trap wire from the front. -
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: Oct 26, 2016
- Last visit: Nov 04, 2024
- Posts: 233
Posted: Dec 04, 2016 - 07:41 PM
So with some hints from the h16 video, from this forum, some extra blocks and extra lines, we lowered and erected the mast back up with just my gf.
We put extension lines to the crew trapezes, ran then through temporary blocks set in the bows, and to the boat's own cleats... This gave us good control of the mast throughout.
Big thanks everyone! -
- Rank: Master Chief
- Registered: Jun 20, 2006
- Last visit: May 22, 2024
- Posts: 7089
Posted: Dec 05, 2016 - 02:36 PM
Nice cat!
I solo up and down my mast all the time (30' alum)
carbon fiber should be completely do-able (not sure about any custom trailer or foil considerations you may have
but using a stock trailer with mast yoke, we turn our boats around (sterns towards car)
we use the yoke to angle the mast in a way that we can get under it and push it forward
when upright we use a spin halyard to the bridal to hold the mast in place as we walk forward (forestay in hand) and attach
my old car and hobie / stock trailor
custom alum trailer with telescoping yoke (for mast stepping assist)
Works even better if you can angle your bows down - then the mast will hold itself up (sans a gust or push) -
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: Jul 01, 2016
- Last visit: Aug 30, 2023
- Posts: 631
Posted: Dec 05, 2016 - 05:25 PM
I've seen a Hobie 16 instructional video showing a guy raising the mast solo using the jib sheets to hold the mast up until he can attach the forestay to the 10 hole adjuster. The guy does lift the mast up by hand though.
--
Marty
1984 Hobie 16 Redline Yellow Nationals, "Yellow Fever"
Opelika, Al / Lake Martin
--
Users on-line
- 0 users
This list is based on users active over the last 60 minutes.