I have come across a 1996 NACRA 20 with out a spinnaker setup.
I have not seen the boat yet.
It has the original rigging. I was told it is all there but will need new tramp, the bottom two panels to the main will have to be replaced. One of the dagger boards will need repair. I was told the hulls are solid and it has never had any repairs.
Besides checking the bottoms what should I look for when checking out the cat?
What do you think its value is as it sits now?
Thanks,
Greg
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Prindle 18 w/ wings, Prindle 16, Prindle 15, current
Hobie 16 in rebuild
2 Hobie 18 past
NACRA 5.2 past
Saint Cloud, Florida
member Lake Eustis Sail Club
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NACRA 20
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Posted: Jan 24, 2017 - 01:32 PM
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Posted: Jan 24, 2017 - 02:01 PM
Thats gotta be a 6.0 in 1996. A 6.0 with a north american rig is worth $3-4k in ready to sail condition. By the sound of this one, I would put it < $1,500. If is does not have the NA rig, even less. A nice trailer could add some value.
An early I20 (in case the year is incorrect) is probably worth a little less considering the missing spin gear. The last 2001 I20 i sold went for $3,700. Complete boat with 2 full sets of sails, 2 booms, 2 spin poles lots of rigging and many misc spares.
Edited by bacho on Jan 24, 2017 - 02:11 PM.
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Greenville SC
Offering sails and other go fast parts for A-class catamarans
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Posted: Jan 24, 2017 - 02:04 PM
Greg,
Are you sure that is a Nacra 20 and not a 6.0? 1996 is pretty old for that platform, oldest I know is 1997. Lots of details here: http://www.catsailor.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=174911
I'll re-hash the rear beam and for that matter front beam connections. These areas were beefed up around 2000/2001, but are okay in original shape if not beach launching/landing/pounding into 30 kt breeze and associated sea state.
Check if the decks have spider cracks and/or are soft. Huge pain to fix.
Sails are expensive, high performance mylar sails and you're adding a $1000 spinnaker to the mix.
End pole snuffers are fine but expensive.
Rudder systems are a bit of weak spot on these boats, castings and rubber fittings do fail with age/abuse/neglect. The updated Nacra 17/ F18 Infusion parts will fit, but be warned of sticker shock. Also, gen1 (thin rudder blades) vs. Gen3 Mk. 1 or Mk. 3/4 (latest Infusion blades are Mk. 3/4, some of the 20's had Mk. 1 Gen3 blades installed which are just fine) rudder blades do handle a bit differently. I've sailed them with all the blades, Gen 1, Gen 2, Gen 3, the 1's are fastest, 3's best for buoy racing, Gen 2's work just fine surprisingly but are a bit more prone to cavitation than the 3's and not as prone as the 1's. Check the upper hole where the upper casting (the one that attaches to the tiller arm) goes, those have been known to snap off if you come into a beach without the blade locked, namely on older Gen 1 blades.
Daggerboard, check what repairs are needed. Minor dings and nicks aren't bad. If its a structural failure, be very cautious, I'm not sure if spare boards exist, I do know none of the new Nacra boards (F16, F18, N17) will fit the cases (too narrow). Maybe Wildcat boards will go in with some trunk mods.
Upper carbon caps on masts have gone bad (UV damage in the sun) and there are no more spares AFAIK, replace with, wait for it, heavy aluminum.
I'd say that vintage in that shape is probably $3-$4k with a trailer. A 2006 in pristine shape, Tybee 500 winner, two sets of sails on $4k trailer setup sold for $10,500 a few years back. These are phenomenal boats, especially if you find a later model with good sails and such, but they are top level race boats and used parts aren't what they used to be. -
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Posted: Jan 25, 2017 - 09:05 AM
Thanks for the info.
The HIN is NACG042D596
How can I visually tell the difference between a 6.0 and the 20?
Thanks,
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Prindle 18 w/ wings, Prindle 16, Prindle 15, current
Hobie 16 in rebuild
2 Hobie 18 past
NACRA 5.2 past
Saint Cloud, Florida
member Lake Eustis Sail Club
http://www.lakeeustissailingclub.org
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Posted: Jan 25, 2017 - 10:52 AM
The I20 would likely have a self tacker jib, high aspect boards and rudders. D shaped beams and a white carbon mast.
The 6.0 should have more "traditional" hulls. Lower aspect boards and rudders. Boomless main with round beams and an aluminum stick. You will want to ensure it has the bridal foil as well.
They are quite different if you google the pictures.
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Greenville SC
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Posted: Jan 28, 2017 - 01:48 AM
I bought a 1999 I20 in San Diego at the end of 2016, now starting to sail it in the San Francisco Bay. Given we plan to sail in fairly breezy conditions locally, are there any reinforcements we can add to the beam/hull connections? Any recommendations other than just bedding the connections?
I've been reading various threads on bedding the connections here, on catsailor.com and teamseacats.com and sounds like something we should do -- but I'm wondering if there's anything else we can do to strenghten locally, like adding a few layers of carbon for example? We still need to disassemble our beams to see how well they are bedded, but I'm assuming some work is warranted.
Also, a capsize-recovery question:
We pitch-poled on our first outing in breeze (20+kts), managed to hold the boat at 90deg, but took a long time to swing bows closer to the wind. We ended up putting our weight on the bow to dig in and swing the stern around, but even then only got 45deg near the wind at best. As soon as the boat righted it started moving at a good 2-4kt clip (sails fully eased), and it was real hard to get both of us back on. Any tips on how to ensure we're more bow to wind before we flip her back upright? We got back to beach ok in the end, but was really good / challenging practice.
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I-20
Sausalito, CA
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SL
Nacra Inter 20 (sold)
2017 Race to Alaska "Team Ketch me if u can"
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Sausalito CA
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Posted: Jan 28, 2017 - 07:12 AM
When my wife and I sail(ed) the F18 or I20, she would bail from helping pull the righting line to jumping on the tramp as the boat came over. It leaves one person on the boat to help steer or help the other on.
Another trick is to use a hook on the jib clew and unhook it while the boat is over.
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Greenville SC
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Posted: Jan 28, 2017 - 08:42 AM
In addition to uncleating jib, main traveler and main sheet also release the down haul all the way. If left cleated it forms a huge draft in the mainsail and it will be harder to swing bows in proper direction for righting boat -
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Posted: Jan 29, 2017 - 11:29 AM
I had hiking straps added to the underside of my tramp - this gives something easy to grab if you find yourself under the boat after righting and it starts to take off. You can easily work yourself to back and grab the steering to point it back into the wind. -
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Posted: Jan 30, 2017 - 02:46 AM
Ha! I need that extra I20 boom from the boat mentioned above. I karate chopped mine on the last day of last year's sailing season! -
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Posted: Jan 30, 2017 - 09:52 AM
The I20 square booms are a bit fragile, well, I think they are so stiff they tend to snap if you hit them in the middle with the sheet on, whereas the round booms bend. I advise getting a new round boom to replace the square boom, about 1/3rd the cost if not cheaper!
When righting, I tend to slide around in front of the daggerboard, then grab the dolphins triker strap and hoist myself up on the hull. I also tend to leave a cant miss ring on one of the trap lines, as these have a handle and are lower to the water than the normal handle, making it much easier to get back onboard.
As to reinforcing the beam connections, there are a couple options. The best is likely to go into the rear beam from the aft hull hatch and add a layer of carbon or two around the aluminum block in that location. Then scuff the beam at the joint and use a thickened epoxy (West Systems mixed with cabosil to peanut butter consistency, or Hysol or T-88) to fill the beam pocket and literally bond the beam to the hull. Do the same at the front.
Many of the pro boats had beaded beams, I'm not sure if they were fully bonded. The downside to a full bonded beam is now you can't take the platform apart easily (you can still heat the aluminum to a high temp and get it to pop), but it makes for a much stiffer overall boat! -
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Posted: Jan 31, 2017 - 06:24 AM
Thanks Bacho, Hullflyer, Kbcatman & Samc99 - all very helpful advice.
So it sounds like the righting advice summary is:
(1) Release downhaul (not just sheets/traveler) to help point head to wind - I'm guessing weight movement like we did to sink the bows and create a pivot point helps too
(2) Get one person back on ASAP (particularly over the front beam using the dolphin stricker strap as the boat rights itself) to help post-capsize control - we did this, but can do it faster.
(3) Have straps or other means to hold onto boat under tramp - we're changing our righting line to a Hawaiian under-tramp setup so that should help, otherwise we'll add more straps. I also found that finding something to grip on the outside of the hulls was difficult - adding fore-aft chicken line like I see in Tybee 500 pics should help with this, otherwise I like the idea of a lower handle on the trap line (though our setup doesn't have a can't miss ring style).
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I-20
Sausalito, CA
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SL
Nacra Inter 20 (sold)
2017 Race to Alaska "Team Ketch me if u can"
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- Race video highlights: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTWp4DP0VcA
Sausalito CA
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Posted: Jan 31, 2017 - 06:44 AM
Thanks - will take a look through the aft hull hatch to see what we can work on & reinforce under the rear beam. Seems hard given how small the hatch is, but your idea makes sense.
I don't think we're actually going to bond the beam into the joint - we'll try to bed the beam tight with thickened epoxy to fill in gaps in the beam joint, but use mold release so the beam will still pop out after the epoxy cures. At least that's the plan (I found a good example of this on the Team Seacats blog dating from 2006).
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I-20
Sausalito
Edited by southstars2012 on Jan 31, 2017 - 06:47 AM.
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SL
Nacra Inter 20 (sold)
2017 Race to Alaska "Team Ketch me if u can"
- Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TeamKetch/
- Race video highlights: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTWp4DP0VcA
Sausalito CA
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Posted: Jan 31, 2017 - 08:24 PM
The Dart has a reinforced webbing handle sewn into each corner on the underside of the tramp, to help keep the boat from rolling clear over after righting. I may have this done to my Prindle when I have the tramp serviced next.
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Bob
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Arizona, USA
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