reboarding cat after falling overboard
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Posted: Apr 26, 2017 - 05:06 PM
A while back I remember a forum post describing a method of rigging a simple setup of rope and bungee that provided a step that makes it easy to get over the front crossbar quickly. Can anyone direct me to that post,please? These old shoulders ain't what they used to be!! Thanks... -
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Posted: Apr 26, 2017 - 05:14 PM
It was a post by catmodding (Andre).
Go here:
https://www.thebeachcats.…5b91aabd4c932bcb8249ac41
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Posted: Apr 27, 2017 - 11:08 AM
Getting onboard can be tough
i have seen older sailors fail to be able to get back on their boats after a capsize (and also other boater who couldn't get on dingys and inflatables)
I have tried a few different "ladders" and knotted ropes - they did not work well because they push under the beam/boat when trying to step on them
I am not 100% sure if the image/system posted is better or not - but it does look like you need a way to attach it forward of the beams. I do not like the idea of having lines hanging around up front (or anywhere) that can snag on someting, or worse be another hazard during a flip
I have learned (the hard way) that on my boat (mystere 5.5) with lots of volume in the bows: that is not the best place to re-board the cat.
for me: i get to the side stay area: reach up and grab a trap handles with one hand , then the other hand. With both hands holding me in place i swing 1 foot aboard - then the second foot. at this time only my butt is still in the water and i push my feet in a little more - then lift my butt up and onboard (mostly with core strength: using my arms as little as possible because they will tire quickly)
this is the best way for me (i have tried many ways)
this is a good skill to practice prior to needing it
grandpap, what are you sailing? -
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Posted: Apr 27, 2017 - 11:48 AM
Thats the link to the fotos.
Heres the link to the topic
https://www.thebeachcats.…opic/topic/14029/start/0
André
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Posted: Apr 27, 2017 - 01:53 PM
MN3, interesting technique. How do you get to the side stay area (outside the hulls)? I've found that when we pull up our Nacra I20, we invariably land between the hulls (in front of the center crossbeam), so if we were to try your technique, we'd have to go around the hulls to get to the side stay area. I do wonder if we had a more traditional over-hull righting line (rather than the Hawaiian style under tramp righting line we have), perhaps we'd then naturally land on the outside of the hull which would make your technique easier...
Related point: our biggest problem on the I20 to date hasn't been as much climbing on board from the center crossbeam at a standstill -- the bigger problem has been that the boat starts accelerating immediately after being righted, dragging us through the water and making it hard for us to hold on, let alone climb back-up. In a few recent instances, the boat was going so fast with us still clinging to the dolphin striker that we basically let it capsize a second time before we'd be forced to let go and separate from the boat... Any ideas on how to make sure the boat stays head-to-wind? In all these cases we righted fairly close to nose to wind. We're 30-35 year old and quite fit, and yet got super tired within 3 capsizes, so I now see getting back on board is not only a problem for older sailors...!
My thoughts:
- With the self-tacking jib wanting to push the boat downwind, maybe we've been unsheeting our mainsheet/track too much during the capsize recovery, such that the boat ends up with balanced or lee helm, and starts sailing on its own rather than pivoting into the wind. So we should try keeping the main half sheeted / track half in in order to still have weather helm pushing us nose to wind?
- Maybe we need a bungee system on the rudders to help pull them into the wind? (not 100% sure how this would work, maybe attach a bungee to the mainsail traveller so that it pulls the tiller bar into the wind -- we'd clip this bungee in during capsize recovery to make sure the boat gets steered upwind, and then unclip once we're back on board)
Edited by southstars2012 on Apr 27, 2017 - 01:56 PM.
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SL
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Posted: Apr 27, 2017 - 03:33 PM
MN3's procedure is what I use on the F18 and the N20. Southstars, your problem is a valid one. Time and experience help. This is my advice:
1) Always run a righting line on a bungee to the corners of the main beams. A more traditional righting line does nothing for you but make it harder to right the boat.
2) DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT drop the main traveler prior to righting. Completely free the mainsheet but leave the traveler centered. Completely ease the jib sheet.
3) Once righted, I tend to dive under the hull in front of the daggerboard from the front crossbar, using the daggerboard to keep me from sliding aft, then pop out on the side, grab the skippers trap handle and if warranted slide back and grab a tiller or tiller crossbar while in the water to get the boat into the wind. If for some reason this fails, the other approach is to slide under the tramp back to the rear crossbeam and grab the tiller crossbar and steer off the back of the boat while the other crew initially provides righting moment then gets to the side and hops onboard via the method MN3 described.
4) To reduce exhaustion, I clip into the righting line with my trapeze hook during righting. This limits upper body use. After the 2nd capsize I would be heading to shore. After a while you consider this seriously after the first capsize..
Edited by samc99us on Apr 27, 2017 - 03:36 PM. -
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Posted: Apr 27, 2017 - 09:29 PM
A word of THANKS to KLOZHALD for help getting the post on reboarding my cat!!!! grandpap -
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Posted: Apr 28, 2017 - 09:30 AM
nope - i still end up between the hulls. it is not hard to get to the outside for me because .... my boat doesn't take off after a cap/righting (more below)
Yup - been there, held on to my righting line while my jib filled and my cat took of like a rocket - right towards the pier 60 and all the hazards.. i was being dragged like indiana jones and had to pull myself to the boat, climb on it and steer it away from being smashed at the last second... really rough day
so i learned ...
my technique these days. IF (when) i capsize....
absolutely first thing to do is pull out my anchor and let it sink (will stop the cat from drifting while on it's side and sailing/drifting when it is righted)
second thing i do is furl my jib so it can't fill with wind after righting and it wont hold water during righting (another great reason to have a furling jib)
third thing i do is disconnect the main so it can't hold water during righting
then i get my righting line set up, if solo i grab a righting bag or both (i carry 2) and get my "lean on"
btw - i agree with samc99us if you have a self tacking jib, and no anchor -
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Posted: Apr 28, 2017 - 09:46 AM
+1 on samc99us's technique with emphasis on "release the jib sheet" and one addition: I board from outside the hulls, next to the windward tiller. It is usually the lowest part of the hull, sinks easily under my pressure, and I can push the rudders to get the bow into the wind.
Having said that, I've had situations where I ended up in a super-man stance, holding on for dear life to the aft beam.
A good friend of mine, in a similar situation, lost his shorts and arrived on the beach in, um, breezier condition than he had left.
Edited by martin_langhoff on Apr 28, 2017 - 10:47 AM. -
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Posted: Apr 28, 2017 - 11:01 AM
We don't carry anchors while racing, not a terrible idea in general but knowing my luck I'll flip in 30+ feet of water and that's a lot of rode. I have thought about carrying a righting bag to use as a sea anchor on distance races, and that is probably a good idea. -
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Posted: Apr 28, 2017 - 12:25 PM
My pleasure. It's why we are all here.
Last year I went from first to last place in a 40 mile race offshore because it took so long for me to get on board after a capsize. I did not realize how much upper body strength I had lost, and it became a critical factor. The advice in this thread is great, and rich with experience. What you will need to do varies a bit from boat to boat, but be sure about this: The most important factor is your physical ability to get your butt out of the water. None of these techniques will work if you do not have the strength and agility to get it done. And in this case, practice makes it possible. The next time you go out sailing and are disappointed by the meager wind, do some capsize drills. Do it until you are too tired to do more, and you will know your limit. Then decide if that limit is acceptable, or should you concentrate on improvement. If you love to sail your cat, hopefully this will be enough motivation to improve your physical condition.
I'm not preaching to you here, I am relating my personal experience. Additional motivation for me was the intense disappointment on my son's face as he helped pull me out of the water.
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Posted: Apr 28, 2017 - 12:54 PM
i totally understand the need to be as light as possible during racing
i carry a nice fortress alum anchor. It weighs only 4 lbs - poly line is light too (my 5' of chain isn't so light)
since this is a critical part of my righting ... and since we island hop all day - every time... it's a necessary evil for me -
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Posted: Apr 28, 2017 - 12:57 PM
one very cold capsize in the winter (with gear on that became VERY heavy when wet) was all i needed to find a different way
The trap handle method does not require a lot of strength. the hardest part is getting to the handle (since it's a few feet up). but once you have it... swinging a foot on board isn't that hard. once you have both feet on deck... i use my back and core muscles a lot more than upper body to wiggle on board.
It ain't pretty - but it works well for me (YMMV) -
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Posted: Apr 28, 2017 - 01:23 PM
Meager wind, yes . . . no wind, NO. Very difficult to right a boat without wind to assist.
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Posted: Aug 24, 2017 - 09:20 PM
I might consider slinging one of these rock climbing straps over the side...
https://www.amazon.com/Si…RID=VZV8RWM61R502Z7WH2MM
https://www.amazon.com/dp…sc=1&smid=A2V4VPRRTU0DB8
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Posted: Aug 25, 2017 - 08:33 AM
i have yet to see any rope style ladder that works hanging over the hull (or beam). I think it has to be rigid or lean against something to work (or be a fixed line attached at multiple points) but would be happy to be wrong
please report back if you try
Edited by MN3 on Aug 25, 2017 - 08:39 AM. -
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Posted: Aug 25, 2017 - 09:52 AM
Many people forget about this. If you are going to practice on a dead calm day, be sure to have some extra help available.
I can solo right the N5.7 with no aids, IF I have 20mph wind.
I need the Colorado Big Bag totally, & I mean totally full when flipping on a dead calm day. Found that out when I purposefully flipped to retrieve a halyard that ran to the masthead.
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Posted: Aug 25, 2017 - 12:54 PM
True words.
What has (recently) worked for me, but is difficult and required practice, is to use the righting line with the large (12") eye splice in the end.
Wrap or tie the righting line around the mast or side stay so the loop is just under the water and you can get your foot in it.
Off the side, you can use the hull to push against and the side stay to pull on until you can reach the trap handle.
Over the front beam you can pull up on the mast/rotator/what have you and get up.
Did I mention it takes practice?
In other news, someone here used a curved piece or PVC pipe spliced into an eye to make a harness like you show, but he also did it on the end of his righting line. Multiple uses for items on the tramp is a theme here, as having separate equipment stored somewhere accessible is frequently in the way and then (ultimately) left onshore when needed.
Those sewn harnesses are expensive. When I climbed, I used to tie my own from a piece of tubular webbing. I can show you how, but you will also need something strong to attach it to the cat for storage and use, hence the comment about separate equipment.
Edited by klozhald on Aug 25, 2017 - 11:57 AM.
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Bob
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Prindle 18-2 #244 "Wakizashi"
Prindle 16 #3690 "Pegasus" Sold (sigh)
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Posted: Aug 25, 2017 - 03:44 PM
That's what I had in mind, Bob. Dangled over the side by the stays. No reason this wouldn't be effective if you could get a grip of one trap. You could even have your crew clip it to the stay/trap where it's needed. The loop height is adjustable on the $19 model.
For that matter, has anyone tried grabbing the traps, extending your legs on the hull and slo-walking up to a trapped position? Just curious. It would require some upper body strength.
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Posted: Aug 25, 2017 - 04:39 PM
Lessons learned from earlier this season. I need a righting bag to get my catamaran upright, and relying on others to offer assistance is risky business. I am able to get on the boat over the front cross-beam and along the side. I watched someone who tried to help me, attempt to board a low-transom outboard skiff using a rope ladder, and it looked like we would have to tow him to shore. He made it, but barely. Rope ladders will not get an unfit person on any boat. A stand-off ladder does not look like a feasible tool for a beach catamaran.
I think it is a good idea as we age. to push the boat off-shore on a calm day and check out our ability to board in ideal conditions, and make a judgement whether we can re-board under more difficult conditions with wind and waves, and plan accordingly. Being unable to self-rescue means you need assistance which may or may not be available. I hope the day I can't re-board is a long way off, but I'm realistic enough to continue to be certain by testing that ability. Besides, swimming is fun.
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