We just bought a 1981 Prindle 18. We are longtime sailors. Could not raise mast by myself. Have added a winch/strap and roller to the trailers front mast support. Want to use the boats forestay to raise mast. Where the forestay is attached to the mast it is turned 90 degrees to starboard (rather than towards the front of the boat) when raising the mast (because of the position of the mast hinge). Are we going to damage anything by using the forestay to winch up the mast? Of course we will use the trapeze lines to keep the mast straight when raising and lowering. Thank you...
Steve and JoAnne Watkins
Using forestay to raise prindle 18 mast
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Posted: Apr 28, 2017 - 04:06 PM
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Posted: Apr 28, 2017 - 06:12 PM
This sounds like a Prindle 18-2 mast, as opposed to a P 18 mast. On an 18-2 the mast hinge is riveted to the side of the foot of the mast, where the P18 classic hinge is part of the mast base casting below the sail slot.
If you try this, keep your lines and stays clear of everything, raise it slowly, and have one person holding the trap lines on each side to control the mast as it rises and wants to twist. This can be a dangerous situation due to the forces involved. There are a few of us here with P 18-2 & 19 masts that are working to find the best way to configure a winch for raising the mast.
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Posted: Apr 28, 2017 - 10:10 PM
Bob, You're confusing the P-18 with the P-16 -
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Posted: Apr 29, 2017 - 01:05 PM
As my old friend and Dart sailor Ed Bellanger would say, " Don't forget to lay your mother-in-law on the traveler in case you drop your mast. Sure softens the blow!!!" -
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Posted: Apr 29, 2017 - 01:11 PM
I understand that you are counting on three people at least, one at the winch and one each side with a trap wire?
I would suggest just two, one on the tramp raising the mast (yourself?) and another one helping from the winch. The one on the tramp may be making little force, mostly guiding the mast instead of the two guys with the trap wires. The first part may be harder, from horizontal until mast on your shoulders, have the winch guy help you walking from the tip of the mast towards the rear beam. The first time you may try with four people, winch, tramp and each side, if you do so use the trap wires just for safety, guiding the mast up yourself from the tramp. The boat angle is very significant, it is much easier if bows are lower than sterns, as you will be holding the mast from a higher point with your hands. Though it's just a few inches it is very significant in terms of the torque applied to "rotate" the mast up, because your hands are very close to the fulcrum (mast base), compared to the length of the mast.
I have a different boat so I have no opinion on the possibility of damaging the hinge. The problem with using the forestay is that you need to attach it to the bridle, which is not necessarily easy, the guy on the tramp will have to stay there until the operation is completed. If you use a trap wire (you have four don't you?) you can leave it there while you attach the forestay. Consider tensioning the mast from the shroud instead of forestay, for that you have to leave one shroud adjuster in a higher hole (adjusted loose).
Edited by Andinista on Apr 29, 2017 - 01:25 PM. -
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Posted: Apr 29, 2017 - 01:18 PM
What I want to say here is that you should avoid stepping the mast with the boat tilted up. Horizontal is ok, tilted down even better but not always possible. -
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Posted: Apr 30, 2017 - 06:41 PM
This helps a lot, make gravity work for you not against you.
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Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN
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Posted: May 01, 2017 - 02:14 AM
This is beautiful.
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Bob
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Prindle 18-2 #244 "Wakizashi"
Prindle 16 #3690 "Pegasus" Sold (sigh)
AZ Multihull Fleet 42 member
(Way) Past Commodore of Prindle Fleet 14
Arizona, USA
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Posted: May 01, 2017 - 02:19 AM
Oops! my bad.
Pete, have you used a winch to raise an P 18 mast?
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Sheet In!
Bob
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Prindle 18-2 #244 "Wakizashi"
Prindle 16 #3690 "Pegasus" Sold (sigh)
AZ Multihull Fleet 42 member
(Way) Past Commodore of Prindle Fleet 14
Arizona, USA
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Posted: May 01, 2017 - 09:58 AM
if you have 2 people - you don't need a winch or gin pole
2 people on the tramp. both grab and raise the mast
1 guy holds the (upright) mast and the other guy (or gal) goes down to the forestay to attach it
the only need for a gin pole (or trailer winch) is if you are solo
also - if you use a winch... better make sure your mast yoke (the thing the winch is on) is VERY strong and has no chance of buckling while stepping -
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Posted: May 01, 2017 - 10:33 AM
Yes, second person can help from the tramp, or pull a trap wire from the front. Now if this person is a child or your wife or somebody passing by, the winch is a better option for me. -
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Posted: May 01, 2017 - 10:44 AM
Yes, Bob, at my age there is no way my daughter & I can raise the mast. I have a rear mast stand same height as front stand. We bring mast back & connect hinge. Then I put mast on rear stand though it's not easy. I have an extra trap wire that winch is attached to freeing the trap wires to attach to main beam preventing sideways movement. Then Stephanie cranks winch with instructions to not let go of crank handle & to keep head away from crank handle while I'm on tramp guiding it a bit. Once up forestay is free to attach to bridle as winch is connected to the extra trap wire. Boat must be attached tightly to trailer or it will creep upon winching. Pete -
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Posted: May 01, 2017 - 11:26 AM
Agree and disagree:
I will let a "stranger" help me step or drop the mast but ONLY by holding onto a line that is secured to my forestay and i give them step-by-step directions of what to do (and even then they often get it wrong).
I wont let them near my hand crank winch. this is a dangerous machine that will break your fingers and hands (or worse) with stupidity... I have seen it happen (people who don't know - let go of the crank without knowing if it has it's "safety" on or not... the let go it will repeatedly "slap" their hands and fingers (with breaking force).)
If i can't step the mast with crew - i don't belong on this boat.
If you don't have the strength to step your mast - how are you going to right your boat WHEN you capsize?
All due respect - if you can't self step/drop/right your boat - time for a different boat
(i just picked up a friend from the hospital on sat - he had his mast blown sideways during stepping - resulted in a completely dislocation of his shoulder / arm - they had to administer morphine and knock him out to put it back in)
Last note on this: when someone helps me lower my mast - i tie a LONG line to the forestay eyeloop (while still secured to my furler) and use my spin halyard to keep it secured when I untie the forestay - this way i can get on the tramp before they actually take up the slack and control of the line/mast. I can not trust my mast (and anything that is behind it) in the hands of a stranger. people can die from being hit by a falling mast ... no time for chances -
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Posted: May 01, 2017 - 01:08 PM
When I get old I guess I will first start experiencing back and hand pain issues from the sailing rather than issues with rigging or righting the boat. -
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Posted: May 01, 2017 - 01:57 PM
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Posted: May 01, 2017 - 02:05 PM
How do you connect the forestay to the furler at this point?
why would you use bungee? what happens in a gust? why wouldn't you use the strongest line possible (i.e. dynemma)?
what did your set up cost? -
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Posted: May 02, 2017 - 12:51 AM
You are right about getting out of the boat. Sold my P-18 & Marstrom Tornado last Fall. Waiting now for my 110 lb foiler to arrive ! Pete -
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Posted: May 02, 2017 - 09:21 AM
I am sure it will be a hoot! - looks fun -
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Posted: May 03, 2017 - 12:01 PM
That works for a mast that goes up facing forward like the H16 pictured.
If your mast steps in a rotated position using the forstay presents a problem.
Consider hoisting a long bridle,attached to a sail track slug, up the mast track all the way to the mast head.
If you have an Aussie ring, lock it in.Secure the halyard at the base of the mast in either case.
Attach a line to the ring so you can unlock it once it's up after stepping so you can bring the halyard back down.
Bring the legs of the bridle around the outside of all the other rigging.
run the legs of the bridle over the roller on the mast support.
Tie eyes evenly in the two legs and place in the winch strap hook. Better yet shackle them into the ring on the hook.
I use ratchet straps to tension the trap wires to the trailer to stop the mast from swaying. Use good ones.
If the mast hound is pointed sideways getting the trap wires configured correctly will require some finesse.
IS THE STERN OF THE BOAT TIED DOWN?
I have a stern mast support that puts the mast head at about 8-0 off the ground when the mast is pinned to the base.
Folks here have used ladders and other means to prop up the mast.
With all this done you should be able to crank up the mast singlehandedly.
How you go about rotating the mast into position and setting the shrouds is not something I am familiar with.
Disclaimer: How you rig your boat is your responsibility. I assume no liability for use of an informational post.
(hate to have to say that)
Good luck GH
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