Sailed an h18 years ago on Hatteras Island where I lived. Just bought a 1988 model. I sail a lot solo and installed the shroud extenders like I had back in the 80s. Worked great back then. New rig came with wire to secure to diamond stay at mast base to keep mast from coming free at mast step when releasing shroud upon solo capsize. never had a problem years ago. Is this wire good idea? Can I just use mast pin? Would be a pain when wire is attached and demasting. Daniel Lynch Arapahoe NC 2526702960
Edited by crazyoldfart on May 24, 2017 - 08:17 AM.
1988 h18 single hand righting
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Posted: May 24, 2017 - 07:15 AM
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Posted: May 24, 2017 - 09:28 AM
probably not a great idea - you may bend or tear your hinge apart or possibly a mast base tang (where you slide the pin in)
Supercats use the shroud extenders very well
they have a captive ball (there is a pin in there at all times that does not interfere with rotation but prevents the mast base from coming off during a capsize/shroud extend/righting
the hobie doesn't have a captive ball and it seems it would be very possible if not likely to come off during righting.
So I think you would need to secure the mast to the boat (snuggly) if you want to use these extenders.
However i would NEVER use my diamond wires for that reason. pulling in any direction other than intended - on one side or both could cause catostrophic results to your spreaders and mast.
IF i was going to re-invent this wheel (Actually i wouldn't) I would drill and rivet eyestraps on each side of my mast as a better "mounting" spot. BUT this would be an on-the-fly attachment (after a capsize).
So after a capsize you will need to: throw an anchor (important), furl your jib (important), release your main/travler (or whatever method works for you), secure mast to boat, extend your shrouds, get righting line set, and start leaning out.
I personally would (and did, and do) just carry a righting bag (actually i carry 2).
Edited by MN3 on May 24, 2017 - 09:31 AM. -
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Posted: May 24, 2017 - 09:55 AM
I've never tried the shroud extender but righting bar worked great for me, I can right my N5.5 with 0 wind, which I can't do with a righting bag. The shroud extender was among my options but it didn't seem as reliable and simple.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKuSSZ7JxBA
This was my inspiration but my setup is way easier to deploy and store after use
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTRS5pTZGV4[/url) -
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Posted: May 24, 2017 - 10:26 AM
Thanks for the reply. The keeper wire would have to attach via longer bolt (5.5 inch) replacing the smaller stock one thru bolted to bottom of diamond wire. It would not pull the stay etc. I guess the fact that I (at times we) capsized many time solo, at times in very rough ocean conditions, I never had any problem with mast makes me ?? the use of the keeper. I may look at attaching the keeper with eye straps per your suggestion near the diamond wire ( length of keeper) there by enabling me to easily remove if I want to take mast down.
I, when solo and much younger, backed the jib, set tiller to steer slightly up wind and set main so when I properly righted the boat it was set up so as I could reset to shroud pin on leeward side. If set up this way it allowed me the time to secure everything alone and not worry about getting knocked down. I am speaking of 20 25 knots of wind.
The righting pole has its problem around here of shallow water and hitting bottom when righting boat.
I will investigate options. Thanks. -
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Posted: May 24, 2017 - 02:14 PM
I sewed together a water bag that if completely full would weigh 250lbs. I usually only have to fill it about half way. I have a loop high up on my righting rope to hoist it from. I don't have any purchase on the bag right now but if you are older a 3-4:1 should be enough to get it up.
Having a loop on the end of the rope for you to clip into your harness is key. That way you have free hands to manipulate the bag. -
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Posted: May 24, 2017 - 03:44 PM
I would say definitely use some type of keeper wire to hold the mast base to the crossbar if you are going to use shroud extenders. Just because you didn't have an issue in the past does not mean that you won't have one in the future. Once you pop the shroud, there is nothing postively holding the mast base to the step. You only need a couple inches of looseness in the shrouds for the mast base to be able to separate from the step. One good wave and your mast base could pop out. If the boat goes turtle, the mast would almost certainly pop out. Then you'd be in a world of hurt as the boat would be impossible to right (not to mention what would happen if you were under the boat or anywhere near the mast when it jumped out of the step).
Do not attempt to use the mast step pin in place of the keeper wire. For starters, you would probably never be able to get it aligned and inserted when the boat is capsized. Even if you did, the pin is designed to work with the mast oriented 90 degrees to the the crossbar, not with the mast laying over an extra 30 or so degrees. You would likely either break the mast step, the hinge, or bend the pin.
sm
Edited by Dogboy on May 24, 2017 - 03:46 PM. -
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Posted: May 24, 2017 - 06:22 PM
SM, you are correct. It would be world of hurt. At 62 , just having a torn aorta repaired 9 weeks ago, I don't need any more hurt. To bad I act like I am 18, oh well. Where is that 250 dirtbike!!!
I will be attaching the keeper to a forged eye on mast run under front beam to another eye and shakle to make it easier to take it off. Using the diamond wire thru bolt is to much trouble. That should do it.
There are other problems using this system causes like slack shrouds in general, but years ago I came up w/ a way to combat this, get the shrouds tight and still pull the pin. But seriously I did not capsize THAT much.
In 1988 we ( 2 of us)sailed from Hatteras NC, south on Pamlico sound to Ocracoke NC, then out Ocracoke inlet on an ebb tide, then back to Hatteras inlet in the ocean. This was one day before hurricane Charley hit. THe entire trip took us less than 5 hours. Huge swell and beam reach both ways. Beyond exciting!!!
DL
Edited by crazyoldfart on May 24, 2017 - 07:23 PM. -
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Posted: May 24, 2017 - 09:51 PM
Welcome back to Hobie 18 sailing crazyoldfart!
I've never actually seen a Hobie 18 rigged with shroud extenders, and have seen a few Hobie 18's.
One thing about rigging the H18 that might have changed since your Hatteras days is that the rig and diamonds are not sailed "loose" like spelled out in the ole "Catamaran Racing for the '90's".
But my understanding is that shroud extenders always require that the mast base is positively attached to the boat in some fashion. Other designs have "captive balls" that do the job, the original G-Cat manual showed a a simple piece of line tied between the mast and the beam. The method isn't that important but it needs to allow the mast to freely rotate and it should be connected all the time since you never know when you might capsize!
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Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN
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Posted: May 25, 2017 - 12:08 AM
This entire technical discussion of whether the mast will stay connected and whether a 62 year old man just out of surgery can solo right a H-18 off cape Hatteras sounds like discussions whether the hull compartments in the Titanic would prevent sinking. Read again in Catsailor the account by North Sea Junkie his recent experience soloing in the North Sea. I can personally attest to how ones energy dissipates with age, yet how I want to deny it. Pete -
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Posted: May 25, 2017 - 07:20 AM
Ha!! Yes this old guy has 3 more weeks under doctors orders ( and wife) not to launch the h18. I tried to sneak out last weekend and got caught she came home early. Not a good day. It was only blowing 5-8!
Damon, I guess I was very lucky not to lose the mast back in the day. I plan on some intentional capsize with my 18 yr old son with me just to see how things go. I may have to use another system, who knows. Yes keeping the shrouds tight is a pain having to use boom to both release the pin and reset when solo.
Pete. Yeah getting old stinks, but staying fit has to be in the program. My son goes in the Navy sp ops in 2 months. He and I have , were, doing some serious workouts together, even the day before my aorta rupture made itself known. Now surely my son can workout much harder than me but I just try to keep up. Vicariously I will live thru him and our other son who is the best fisherman/hunter I know. I feel if I sail the h18 conservatively I will be ok in the short term and keep regaining my strength to go flat out.
If anyone is ever in the area, lets go sailing!
May you always be on a beam reach!
DL
Bairds Creek Arapahoe, NC
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