I had to replace the mainbeam on my Nacra Inter 20 due to a crack at the dolphin striker. Now I need to reinstall halyard and tack line cleats. The old halyard cleat was a spinlock (a very old one). I hear that they can slip in spin halyard applications. The old tack line cleat was a harken cam cleat. It did not hold the tack line well last season, but that may have been due to age and line issues. What do folks think of using two harken cam cleats, one behind the other, to get a really confident hold on these lines? The forward cam cleat for both lines would have a fairlead attached to the top of if, the rear one would not for easy cleating and uncleating. The halyard and tack lines will be covered Marlow Excel Racing 5 mm. Thanks.
Edited by traphappy on May 25, 2017 - 12:32 PM.
Halyard and tackling cleats on a Nacra Inter 20
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Posted: May 25, 2017 - 11:31 AM
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Posted: May 25, 2017 - 11:39 AM
Since you are starting fresh with a replaced beam, put the spin halyard cleat on the mast. The beam placement was old school. A Harken swivel cleat will do it.
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Philip
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Posted: May 25, 2017 - 11:49 AM
I like the mast placement idea, and I know at least one person on this site has done it without any damage to the mast. Is it OK to use a stainless pop rivet in a carbon mast? I would coat in Tef-gel first, but worry that the expansion of the rivet during installation could damage the carbon mast? Maybe not? I know that the manufacturer used rivets in the mast, but I don't know what kind they used and if it mattered. Thanks. -
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Posted: May 25, 2017 - 12:15 PM
I have a spin lock on my mast
i use 4mm (possibly 5) robline
I have never had an issue
I believe the old spinlocks used a plastic "brake" - they switched over to alloy and i believe that handled the issue -
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Posted: May 25, 2017 - 12:26 PM
MN3, What boat do you have? I was curious about the performance of the new spinlock alloy brakes. -
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Posted: May 25, 2017 - 02:59 PM
mystere 5.5 (sail it 100+ days a year)
mystere 6.0 (hardly ever sail it- trying to sell it cuase i don't need 2 - and it was in mint condition - every time i sail it i scratch it and die a little)
I have NEVER had a spin lock slip on me with my set up (both mystere's have the same spinlock on the mast, my tack line on the 6.0 is also a spin lock - never slipped, i have a large spin lock in the mast track of my 6.0 for "off the hook" reefing - never has slipped either (only used a few times) -
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Posted: May 26, 2017 - 11:20 AM
I've had more spinlocks fail on me than I can count. I have 3 dead in the box. This includes a set purchased in 2014/2015 that I'm pretty sure have alloy cams. That set may be adjustable and the line was just too small, but it worked fine for a year then failed. Switched back to a normal harken cleat.
You definitely want the headbanger on the mast. I would ask Nacra how they are doing that same attachment on the N17 and F20carbon, but I suspect with a normal pop rivet. Discussion here: https://www.catsailor.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/93803/re-rivets-into-carbon-fiber#Post93803
You likely want a rivet like this: https://www.mcmaster.com/#pop-rivets/=17sllhz
You could also use a rivet nut, https://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-rivet-nuts/=17slm65, but in a more corrosion-resistant style. Something similar is what they use on carbon bike frames for attaching water bottle holders etc.
Also, you want the headbanger installed high enough up on the mast that it is generally above the head height of the crew. -
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Posted: May 26, 2017 - 04:12 PM
The Harken cam cleats come in two versions - plastic cams & aluminum cams.
The teeth on the plastic cams will eventually wear out as the line passes over them allowing the control line to slip. For this reason, always use aluminum cams in high load or critical applications. I've used Harken cam cleats for many years on mainsail downhaul applications which are extremely high load and a small line and have never had an issue when using the aluminum cams (not so with plastic cams).
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Posted: May 26, 2017 - 04:43 PM
+1
and they support their products -
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Posted: May 26, 2017 - 04:51 PM
Loads of great info and experience here. Thanks for the tips. Really appreciated! -
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Posted: May 26, 2017 - 05:32 PM
Just checked my Amazon Harken 150 cam cleat order. I got the aluminum cams
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Posted: May 26, 2017 - 05:59 PM
Spinlocks for the spin halyard won't just fail, the will disintegrate. (and usually at the worst time). Got the t-shirt and have seen it many times.
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Philip
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Posted: May 26, 2017 - 06:27 PM
samc99us, I really like the mast mount idea, and thanks for the information. I'm going to explore it for next year. Not sure that with other projects, I'll be able to do the mast mount right this year though. Might just go with two Harken 150 cams on the beam this year. I will leave the spinnaker cleat mount for last, in case I figure out a safe way to mount to the carbon mast. -
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Posted: May 30, 2017 - 08:08 AM
Trap,
Its not that big of a deal. You can probably rivet straight to the mast, I just recommended a pop rivet that has a wider base than standard. McMaster is very easy and painless to order from-they are better than Amazon FYI, especially if you have a problem (Amazon is a complete failure when it comes to lost packages and customer support).
The one issue is you do need a turning block on the trampoline a bit outboard of the mast base. Go find a Nacra Infusion or any other F18 and you will see the correct setup.
Also, FYI, depending on how your tack line is setup, you can very very easily cut a slot in your self tacker with the line. There is a reason that on the new boats the tackline cleat is on the backside of the front beam underneath the tramp. -
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Posted: May 31, 2017 - 08:43 PM
Lot's of great information to chew on here! Thanks! Incidentally, I'd like to learn how to taper spin halyards and other lines, but don't have the time to do that now with work and other boat projects underway. So, I am ordering a halyard from a sailing supply store. Based on the old, untapered spin halyard, an 80 ft line will be more than long enough. I am going with Marlow Excel Racing 5 mm. Since I don't know the exact length, I am thinking to order the line with 28 ft exposed Dyneema with a splice in the end. This would be the retrieval side of the line. Then, I will shorten (if needed the other end and attach to the head of the spin with a bowline knot. Do my lengths seem appropriate? Is 80 ft long enough and am a removing too much or too little cover from the retrieval end? As mentioned above, I am removing 28 ft. My main priority for this tapered halyard project is to avoid burning holes in my new spinnaker. The boat is a Nacra Inter 20 with a midpole snuffer. Really looking forward to information from a fellow N20 sailor. Thanks! -
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Posted: May 31, 2017 - 10:35 PM
Your good. Step and rake the mast and adjust with the spin rigged. Make sure to add a stopper ball above your bowline.
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Philip
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Posted: Jun 01, 2017 - 08:06 AM
why do you need a stopper ball on the head?
the only reason i can think of is so your bowline doesn't get jammed in the block at the top of your mast...
Edited by MN3 on Jun 01, 2017 - 08:07 AM. -
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Posted: Jun 01, 2017 - 01:28 PM
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Posted: Jun 01, 2017 - 01:42 PM
The stopper ball prevents damage to the line and the sail at a highly loaded part of the line. It also prevents the block from getting chewed up.
Trap, I recently built a tapered spin halyard for an N20 buddy. Took about 20 minutes but not my first rodeo. We ended up at 86' in total length of line purchased if I recall correctly. 50' or so of Marlow Excel Fusion in 6mm and 36' in dyneema. This was tapered so the dyneema was on the halyard part. It is generally critical that you get the overlap (where the taper happens) at the cleat as this tends to thicken that part up and let it hold properly. You can de-core the Marlow Excel Fusion at the tail where it goes up the kite which helps reduce weight there.
Edited by samc99us on Jun 01, 2017 - 03:03 PM. -
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Posted: Jun 01, 2017 - 01:55 PM
gotcha (did you meant "prevents the SAIL from getting chewed up"?
