Fixed above MN3. The halyard turning block can wear as without a ball you are point loading it (and the sail/line) I use the smallest balls available from APS.
Halyard turning blocks are an interesting discussion. I've been using a Harken T2 40mm block for 2+ years now. Its the same weight as most all smaller blocks, has low friction, doesn't melt when I hoist at Mach 3, and has been reliable. I went this direction because I made a mistake and am running a heavy 8mm halyard but I can say with confidence this is my go to setup for a serious distance race or situation where it matters and the minor wind age and weight penalty are acceptable.
I've also had good luck with the Ronstan 30mm Nylatron Orbit blocks. They don't melt. The 16mm Harken Airblock is another good choice and is generally a bullet proof block.
Halyard and tackling cleats on a Nacra Inter 20
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Posted: Jun 01, 2017 - 03:14 PM
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Posted: Jun 01, 2017 - 03:31 PM
Gotcha - that makes a lot of sense
I think i am using a standard Harken 22mm Single Block - I have burned one or 2 up in my day - I think they also make a high load version of it (or they used to at least)
i am over-due to replace this block as well as the dynema bail it rides on - this almost guarantees me a blow out this weekend - hope i remember to replace it
Edited by MN3 on Jun 01, 2017 - 03:45 PM. -
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Posted: Jun 01, 2017 - 04:48 PM
One nice thing about the T2 blocks and similar are they don't chafe the dyneema bails for all intents and purposes. The halyard, block and bail I'm using have been on the boat since 2014. I may replace them but wear isn't the issue, its my OCD nature of keeping things new. -
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Posted: Jun 02, 2017 - 08:30 AM
peace of mind knowing it shouldn't break during a race is a good thing!
btw -now that i look - it is ronstan that has a high load 20 mm block
i have burned up harkens but i don't think i have burnt up a ronstan -
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Posted: Jun 02, 2017 - 09:25 AM
My experience is that Harken is a more bullet proof product in the same size range (29mm vs. 30mm ronstan). Part of that is how the blocks are load rated-Harken specifies yield as the maximum load, whereas Ronstan specifies ultimate strength as the maximum load. Anyway, I think either the Harken T2 29mm block or the Ronstan 30mm block will get the job done for most people. I like the Nylatron bearings inside the Ronstan 30mm block as you won't melt the bearings in a fast spinnaker hoist or when hoisting loaded. -
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Posted: Jun 02, 2017 - 09:45 AM
I totally agree but i think they are pretty close in quality
i LOVE harken's support and usually prefer them (plus they are American made)
example: my 55mm rachomatic 8:1 blocks died after a long life - i wore the bearings out after only 1000 sails or so
I called harken - they said ship em back - i asked what will they do if they are shot (i had no receipt and was probably out of their warranty period) they said they will replace free of charge unless they found it was due to negligence (i.e. they were being used in a way that was over loading them) - in which case they will sell me a new set for just above cost.i asked what the cost would - it was a nice discount
when i spoke with harken they said - yup they are shot, we will send you new ones FREE - but i said "what if i want to upgrade to the 75mm" - he said "sure - no problem, we will charge you only the difference" so i did. I got a set of 75mm 8:1 for a few $100
Edited by MN3 on Jun 02, 2017 - 09:47 AM. -
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Posted: Jun 02, 2017 - 12:14 PM
Yes, that has been my experience with Harken as well. Ronstan is very good on service too I should point out.
Upgrading to 75mm blocks seems like complete overkill. Even on the Nacra F20 Carbon 55mm harken gear is used on the main and that is a much bigger sail than almost any boat out there (except maybe the ARC22, and even then the Carbon 20 likely has higher loads given its design and the foiling nature of the boat). As you pointed out, the 55mm gear lasts a long long time. I may consider replacing my lower block before Worlds or a Tybee 500, but that is generally because the ratchomatic mechanism tends to stop working correctly after some years (the cams wear out). -
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Posted: Jun 02, 2017 - 12:32 PM
the f20's use a 10:1
When i spoke to the techs at harken they asked about my boat and sail area. They said if you are using too small a block, that would explain your bearings wearing out.
i didn't tell them that i have run non stock tornado sails - and added a purchases and turned them into 9:1 and even 10:1 on occasion - I asked them if i was close to being maxed out - they said they weren't sure but it was pretty rare that someone wears out main blocks bearings
and since I had recently purchased a bigger boat (mystere 6.0), i decided for a few bucks, overkill wasn't a bad thing - esp if it would prevent me from blowing them out
I wont disagree they were probably not needed
Edited by MN3 on Jun 02, 2017 - 12:39 PM. -
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Posted: Jun 02, 2017 - 01:13 PM
F18's also use 10:1's on Harken 55mm blocks (same exact setup). I would go 12:1 on the F20 as it is a much higher sail load; we were fully maxed on downhaul and rotation and starting to drop traveler in less than 15 kts of breeze, probably closer to 12-13. Needed more diamonds but the only downside to mainsheet purchase is lots of mainsheet length and trouble easing sheet in light air.
FYI, the lower block for a 8:1, 10:1 and even 12:1 mainsheet are essentially the same. For the 8:1 and 10:1 they are identical and you can upgrade the lower block on an 8:1 to a 10:1 with a pair of harken 40C blocks with the correct mounting attachment (I don't have the part number handy). -
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Posted: Jun 02, 2017 - 02:58 PM
I turned my last 8:1's into 9 and 10:1's by running a dynema double eye'd line through the center and added the extra 40mm or 2 into the system
but they burnt up
part of why i upgraded was i like to use fuzzy dynema blends for my main (either robline racing sheet or salsa) and they didn't run so well through the 40mm blocks so i figured they would run faster in the 75's (that use 57mm as the small block, nor 40mm)
Boy do they run fast
Another huge benefit (for me at least) is that these blocks pay out line MUCH faster than the 57mm ones
and since i have an archaic travler car (20+ year old beam with x groves on top for old style car with to run on), the ability to pay out faster (but controlled) is key when using the travler
and i can dump my entire main 2 or 3x faster than before (nice when about to capsize)
Edited by MN3 on Jun 02, 2017 - 03:06 PM. -
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Posted: Jun 02, 2017 - 04:21 PM
That is a solvable problem-use a tapered mainsheet. The thick part of the mainsheet only ever runs through the 57 mm blocks in my setup. This is why it is important to learn how to build your own tapered lines, and to use them in high purchase setups.
What is the weight delta between the 57mm and 75mm blockset? I would think that's the issue for racing. -
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Posted: Jun 02, 2017 - 05:14 PM
442 g for the 57mm base (sans the 40mm block and tackle)
805 g for the 75mm base (")
340 g 57mm quad top
772 g 75mm quad top -
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Posted: Jun 05, 2017 - 03:12 PM
That's definitely on the porky side for a set of blocks. Not something I would consider if you are seriously racing, but a good option for lots of distance sailing. -
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Posted: Jun 05, 2017 - 03:15 PM
I don't race at all anymore
I MIGHT do "round the island" this year, but only so i get to crew on a F31R
