note about the front tramp - they are great for holding lunch and light gear but are not really appropriate for people in most conditions (fine while parked, or if you have an issue upfront that needs attention). the weight is too far forward and will significantly increase the difficultly at low speeds and reduce the fun
wings too - great with wind but not so great in light air
Considering a beach cat...
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Posted: Jun 15, 2017 - 09:56 AM
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Posted: Jun 15, 2017 - 10:04 AM
Have you looked at an AC60? Theres one for sale in Miami right now, plenty of room for the family.
https://galveston.craigsl….org/boa/6141304361.html -
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Posted: Jun 15, 2017 - 10:41 AM
Why buy it when you can just rent it for $3000 / day?
https://boatbound.co/boats/jsvqz# -
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Posted: Jun 16, 2017 - 10:41 AM
The biggest difference I have noticed with cats coming from monohulls (Yachts) is that most cats tend to do one particular thing really, really well, while yachts try to do a bit of everything (and end op being really good at nothing in particular).
What this means is that you need to be scathingly honest with yourself with regards to what you need (vs what you want). Know thyself and thou willst know thy Cat! Or something like that
For me it meant drawing the politically incorrect conclusion that I wanted to sail solo and have one person or two kids tag along from time to time. I needed reasonable performance, didn't want to race much and had no money. So I bought an old Nacra 5.2 and have tailored it to my exact taste. It fits me like a glove and I'm a happy camper. But you have to be prepared to kill your darlings and all those nice to haves. Then I'm sure you will have a much easier time finding a cat that will fit the bill. -
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Posted: Jun 16, 2017 - 10:46 PM
Hey DennisMe,
Sought of got where you are coming from, and for sure I'm on the fence.
And there are definitely things you can do on a keeled boat you will never
be able to do on a cat. I'm leaning to try it, I can always go back, my 30
somethings in my life are game. Got to sell the 'Yacht' first, in the meantime
I'll checkout the videos and conversations on the forums.. -
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Posted: Jun 17, 2017 - 09:17 AM
Just get a Hobie 16 and be done with it matey!!! Lol!
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Marty
1984 Hobie 16 Redline Yellow Nationals, "Yellow Fever"
Opelika, Al / Lake Martin
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Posted: Jun 26, 2017 - 02:44 PM
I just starting sailing a beachcat last season, though I only sailed small dinghies for a few years prior. I too wanted something I could sail solo and with my family. I found a g-cat 5 meter and have found it to be great for both. I sailed a H16 and a Getaway a few times which is what got me started. The 16 was too confined and I did not want to spend the cash for a getaway.
I kept the g-cat on the beach most of last year and used it a lot. I know a lot of people say the front tramp is not usable, maybe for high performance sailing but I have had as much as 3 teens or 2 adults up there without issue. Sure you are not going to fly a hull but it will sail just fine and easily sail past the monohulls. I did not buy it for racing I bought it for fun. Last September I was out with 3 adult men easily at the max capacity of the boat (none of them wear skinny jeans). While the performance was low we still were able to have a nice leisurely sail without issue. Though we did come close to a pitchpole (my fault) the extra weight actually helped keep the stern down. With myself and one or both of my daughters the boat is a blast. I take the wife, kids, cooler and gear and have great days on the water. Oh and my dog loves the front tramp.
We are on LI also and sail either out of west Hampton where I can leave the boat rigged on the beach or I launch from Heckscher park.
Edited by woofman on Jun 26, 2017 - 03:48 PM. -
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Posted: Jun 26, 2017 - 03:12 PM
Kinda like saying - I know my motorcycle has only seating for 2 but i can fit my whole family on it - sure it can be done, but is it wise? safe?
Reasons why weight on the front tramp is not good:
1. this boat is already prone to pitch pole - having weight up there exacerbates that issue
2. weight forward changes the CE (center of effort) meaning the rake of the mast and rudders is not optimal and will degrade performance
3. having weight up front makes tacking much harder - not to mention beating your crew up with the jib / watch that clew plate - it can take out an eye
4. having weight up front makes slow movement tactics MUCH HARDER (i.e. launching)
5. overloading a 400lb sailboat is typically not that big of a deal but get caught in a squall line and you are risking lives and putting people in a (potentially very) dangerous situation - please be certain about the weather before you grossly overload your boat
Edited by MN3 on Jun 26, 2017 - 03:15 PM. -
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Posted: Jun 26, 2017 - 06:04 PM
Pretty bad analogy with the motorcycle. I have been riding since teenage years and that is just silly (though maybe not in some Asian countries). I grew up on the water and my professional life is in safety, security, first response and emergency management for 30 years. To tell everyone that this is so dangerous is a bit overkill. Though I guess there are those that require warning labels. ALL watersports can be dangerous, so can driving, walking and many other things we do in day to day life. I feel a 100 times safer putting my kids on the cat than I would a 60mph wave runner. After many, many hours sailing the g-cat last year I have easily come to understand the need for balance and using caution where necessary. But to say the front tramp is useless is a false statement. Learn the craft you are using, use common sense and caution and go have fun!
1. Not if properly balanced.
2. I am not seeking performance with extra passengers, but again proper balance.
3. Tacking has only been slightly reduced unless there is no balance.
4. Again, balance.
5. I am always aware of the weather even if I am not "grossly overloading the boat". (I did say to max capacity, not grossly overloaded)
Edited by woofman on Jun 26, 2017 - 07:05 PM. -
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Posted: Jun 27, 2017 - 04:13 AM
It's a perfect analogy -
You can put 4 or 5 on a motorcycle, and it's not gonna explode but if something unexpected happens, your in a much worse spot than if you had only the amount of bodies the bike/boat was designed for
I never said it was "so dangerous" - I said "overloading a 400lb sailboat is typically not that big of a deal but get caught in a squall line..." (actually rated at 360lbs)
Also not what I said - "they are great for holding lunch and light gear but are not really appropriate for people in most conditions"
so to get your boat "balanced" you overload your cat?
4 adult men = close to 800 lbs
360 lb boat...
What is "max capacity" of a 360 lb beachcat?
Edited by MN3 on Jun 27, 2017 - 10:18 AM. -
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Posted: Jun 27, 2017 - 07:47 AM
MN3, have you ever sailed a G-Cat? It sure doesn't sound like it. I too carry kids on the front tramp all the time without any problems whatsoever. -
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Posted: Jun 27, 2017 - 08:15 AM
lol - yes. many times. I have several friends whom own them and i am good friends with the designer / manufacturer of the boat. I have personally helmed 5.0, 5.0 turbo & 5.7 and one of the only people in the world to have crewed on a power g-cat 36' as well (no sailing skills needed for that one).
Again, i never said it can't be done... i listed the reasons why it is not optimal above...
But questions for you:
Are they up front because there isn't room on the main tramp or just cause they think it's fun (which it can be)?
What size g-cat do you have? (5.0, 5.7, 21', 36'?)
How do you keep your jib from hitting your kids on the front tramp during tacking / gybing?
How much do your kids weigh?
Edited by MN3 on Jun 27, 2017 - 10:00 AM. -
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Posted: Jun 27, 2017 - 08:51 PM
To answer some of your questions, they alternate between the front and rear tramp depending on conditions, but spend most of their time on the front tramp. Sometimes, one stays up front and we have three people (myself included on the back). They like it up there because it is fun, there is more room, and because getting hit with a jib is far more comfortable than being hit with a boom (i have a 5.0). Actually, they the jib is a non-issue. When we tack, they duck under the jib. As far as what is optimal, that is in the eye of the beholder. I find it a lot more optimal with them up front than being in my way on the rear tramp. I've owned three boats. A prindle 16, a hobie 16, and a gcat 5. Now that I've had the front tramp, I could never go back to the prindle or hobie unless I were sailing with me and a crew of 1 and no one else. I don't race. Instead, I use my boat to spend the entire day on, often island hopping. We take food, drinks, beach toys, etc... I could do none of this without the front tramp. So to each his own, but it certainly isn't dangerous to have kids on the front tramp if you know what you are doing. Getting caught in an afternoon squall is dangerous regardless of front tramp use. I have never pitchpoled and don't go out in 20+ mph winds. My kids both swim very well, and I have taught them what to do in the event they go overboard. I also take a standard horizon hx870 and a waterproof smart phone that allows me to keep an eye on the weather.
What is your response to the G-Cat promotional documents posted on this website in the identification section? Some of your suggestions seem inconsistent with the things you are saying. A part of me is interested in trying a hobie getaway for even more room and comfort.
Edited by jsb4g on Jun 27, 2017 - 08:53 PM. -
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Posted: Jun 27, 2017 - 09:39 PM
promotional documents...
Those have never been misleading ever right. I think the commercial for the pet rock made it sound dope as well -
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Posted: Jun 28, 2017 - 08:13 AM
Pet Rocks
The best part is that it doesn't require food, water, or attention. I know I got sick of my pets dying all the time. It's already potty trained and if it happens to get dirty you can just wipe it off. Can be trained to do awesome tricks. "play dead" or "lay down". You can teach it to attack as well, does require the owner to participate a little. Comes in handy when you're in harms way. It can hold It's breathe forever and dry off quickly. So it will be safe at the beach or pool. Please note they swim to the bottom to find, be with, or a wait their rock friends.
How misleading is that?
sorry for the off topic.
--
Prindle 18 w/ wings, Prindle 16, Prindle 15, current
Hobie 16 in rebuild
2 Hobie 18 past
NACRA 5.2 past
Saint Cloud, Florida
member Lake Eustis Sail Club
http://www.lakeeustissailingclub.org
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Posted: Jun 28, 2017 - 08:34 AM
Cool - i get it
you didn't say how much they weigh - the reason i asked was: it is incredibly different to be out with a few small kids on the front tramp (and getting caught in weather) vs having 2 adults (or three teen) up there or having 4 adults (close to 800 lbs) on a 5.0. also they must be pretty "small" to be able to fit under the jib.
And while we are talking about weight - I spoke with an engineer who owns a 5.0 and asked him about the volume and displacement. He said he worked up the numbers on our friends 5.7. He said "the hulls are aprox 16.5 cubic ft each - that means they would submerge with 1000lb of weight (each hull) - so put 800 lbs on a 5.0 and spring a leak (not uncommon on beach cats) and you may actually sink (i have seen this happen to a P18 with 4 onboard)
BTW if the boom is an issue, and performance is not the main objective - 5.0's do pretty well without the boom (you may need to add a multi-hole clew plate and add a big batten on the main but not expensive)
I stand by my 5 points - they are based in fact - not opinion
Having weight up there (on a front tramp) is not optimal for: light air handling, moves your CE forward which may cause lee or weather-helm, effects tacking and gybing, AND asking for pitchpole in heavy air (as this boat is already a bit prone to pitchpole)- and the more the weight the worse.
You may say it is optimal for room and kid smiles (i don't disagree) - but that is not what i am talking about - I am talking about boat handling and safety (using a worst case scenario - getting caught in weather - which is something that happens to many sailors despite their best efforts)
for sure but MUCH worse with people upfront as your boat handling will be degraded.
I would personally say: under light air conditions it is not a big deal, but has the potential to be dangerous in anything but light air (someone getting smacked with a jib clew or being beaten up by the sail or being thrown into the forestay or overboard during a bow-stuff). - and the more weight and/or the more forward the weight - the worse
(haven't seen it) but there is no doubt that g-cats are a great fun and family cat that can also be piped up to be very performance tuned. Also knowing Hans, there may be a little bit of bias opinion in any G-cat marketing
Again - I never said it can't be done - i said it isn't optimal (for sailing) and down right dangerous to try and sail this boat with 800 lbs with real air -
We camp every year and grossly overload our cats
It seems every time it's time to go home, it is blowing 30
nothing quite as "exciting" as sailing mast only (or jib only) with all your camping gear, guitars, and dog (i now tow a jon boat so i don't have to overload my cat)
(edit)
Just found this on the site -
Is that what you are talking about? If so, i don't see anything about sailing with people on the front tramp - of course he does say "over 80sq ft for you and your family to enjoy" - he also mentions putting a tent on the front beam - none of which implies that is for sailing.
Edited by MN3 on Jun 28, 2017 - 10:06 AM. -
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Posted: Jun 28, 2017 - 09:00 AM
Do they offer rescue pet rocks?
I'd rather get one that's around a pound -
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Posted: Jun 28, 2017 - 11:43 AM
Interesting debate. Got to say that MN3 knows his stuff and always offers excellent advise on this site. He is usually spot on and seems to really enjoy sharing his wealth of knowledge with us in these forums for free. My advice would be to just take his advice into consideration.
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Pete
2001 NACRA 450 SOLD
2000 NACRA 500 TOTAL LOSS
2004 NACRA INTER 20 SOLD
2016 NACRA 500 Sport
DeLand, FL
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Posted: Jun 28, 2017 - 12:31 PM
I would like to add that Pet Rocks live forever by the way.
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Marty
1984 Hobie 16 Redline Yellow Nationals, "Yellow Fever"
Opelika, Al / Lake Martin
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Posted: Jun 28, 2017 - 12:54 PM
I figured out what you do with the kids. You just have to add some long boards to your cat.
you may want to make sure they are wearing their life jackets.
--
Prindle 18 w/ wings, Prindle 16, Prindle 15, current
Hobie 16 in rebuild
2 Hobie 18 past
NACRA 5.2 past
Saint Cloud, Florida
member Lake Eustis Sail Club
http://www.lakeeustissailingclub.org
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