Side note- this was last on the water in 2006.
Just bought a SC17 and trailer
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Posted: Jun 13, 2017 - 10:30 AM
Hi all, new sailor here. My father in law is giving me his old sunfish, but while that is in the process of being restored (sitting outside in the mountains since 1992, I found someone selling a 1982 SC17 for just a couple Benjamin's. Figured I could get it on the water and play around while I'm working on the sunfish. Overall the boat is all there except the tiller crossbar. All rigging, blocks, and other bits/pieces were included. I know you guys are waiting for it... there's a BUT. after all is said and done, the gelcoat has some spider cracking, the starboard hull appears to be delaminating/dented right where someone on a trapeze would be standing, it has a soft spot roughly 18" long on top of the starboard hull, and the tramp needs some stitching repairs. Now before you guys jump on how to handle it (And please, I'm open to all suggestions), this boat is not going to be raced, I don't plan on flying a hull on the regular, and our lakes here in Colorado aren't huge or extremely choppy. This was purchased specifically to get out and have space to spread out with my wife and kids. Honestly I'll probably get a small trolling motor or something and try to fish off of it as well.
Side note- this was last on the water in 2006.
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Posted: Jun 13, 2017 - 10:31 AM
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Posted: Jun 13, 2017 - 10:32 AM
Well, pictures don't work? Do I need a post count to do that? Anyways here's a link to a picture of the thing. http://s300.photobucket.c…f7vd.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0 -
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Posted: Jun 13, 2017 - 11:08 AM
Nice! welcome to the world of fast sailing
I would suggest you throw away all the standing rigging and replace (11 year old rigging of unknown condition is a demasting waiting to happen) - where dropping a mast typically isn't a huge issue, and often does no damage -- it can (fall on a car, person, smash into / break a hull, rip parts violently off your boat etc)
as per the needed maintenance:
you defiantly want the tramp inspected and repaired by someone qualified. If it is not up to the task - it must not be used. the consequences can be serious (i.e. a family member falling through it while sailing, or worse, it failing on you while your stepping your mast - then falling through into your trailer)
I would not be worried about spider cracks - they happen on boat with lots of stress (the torque and twist on the hulls of a catamaran underway can be hefty)
I wouldn't worry at all about a dent / but delam is a bit more of an issue. If the delam is from being dented - not too hard to fill that area with epoxy
the soft spot must be addressed - can lead to hull failure if not repaired - usually injecting epoxy 1/2 way into the gelcoat can handle this. sometimes a more aggressive repair must be done (i.e. making a mold off the good hull, cutting out and replacing the effected area)
as per the trolling motor:
30 or 40 lbs hanging off your rear beam isn't great (won't make sailing easier), but not the end of the world - another 70lbs battery on board is worse. how are you going to secure the battery? how are you gonna keep it dry? how are you going to attach the motor? Cheta mounts are available but not cheap (around $500). Now if you want to add a small engine... same caviots: expensive, weight, environmental issues if you capsize.
I would recommend a few paddles stowed on board - one for every set of arms. Not fun or fast but works
lastly - Fishing off a beach cat - trying to fish while sailing is probably not gonna work at all - esp on a small cat like yours.
perhaps if you leave the mast at home, hook up that motor - otherwise, fishing rods don't stow well on cats, fishing lines and hooks don't mix well with mainsheets nor jib sheets, nor side stays, exp not with sails
Where will you store your catch? (and bait?)
for the cost of your motor, or mount you can buy a row boat, or jon boat to go fish with -
Posting images here: no you don't need to have a post count.
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Posted: Jun 13, 2017 - 01:28 PM
MN3,
Thanks for the tips. We'll be looking it over very carefully before doing any sailing with it. I have a friend of my (was a licenced captain years ago) who'll be helping me through this.
Actually curious on the standing rigging. I come from a commercial construction background, and the stainless steel lines/straps/etc and associated connections we use for jobsite rigging are good until they don't pass inspections (these are cables from 1/4" through 1-1/2"). Why replace something if it is still in good shape? Not really an 'unknown' to me.
I'll get some pictures of the hull damage. The soft spot is right under the dent, so delam seems very likely. It does the 'crunch/crackling' when I put my full heel weight on it (I'm #185) and flexes some, but seems relatively solid otherwise.
I actually found a second tramp in the bottom of the bin that I thought was a tarp. Its blue (if that matters), and actually in much better shape than the one currently in use.
The reason for the trolling motor (and yes it'll be a gas powered outboard, probably air cooled 2 stroke to keep weight under #30) is that i'll have my kids, my wife, and probably friends as well out at various times. I need to have the control and ability to de-sail and power to the nearest shore/dock in case of emergency. Paddles will be available, but if a kid starts having issues, that leaves just one person for padding, and that paddling will be interrupted if it gets worse. As a parent I'll take the risk/weight and have the mobility in case I need it.
The fishing would be from anchor or mooring, and I've seen PVC tubes slung underneath for the storage. Just an idea, may or may not chase that opportunity. -
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Posted: Jun 13, 2017 - 01:39 PM
The fishing would be from anchor or mooring, and I've seen PVC tubes slung underneath for the storage.
This part is genius! I plan on putting rod holders on the wings of my Getaway, but without wings this is a great idea. Just slower if you cruise on by some tailing reds.
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Hobie Getaway
Prindle 18 - Sold
South Padre Island, TX
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Posted: Jun 13, 2017 - 02:34 PM
the unknown is the rigging / not you lol
you say the boat hasn't been used in 11 years - how old is that rigging? 11 years old? 22 years old?? 33 years old???
are you 100% certain there is no rust in your fitting ends? I would look very closely
also ANY splits or kinks greatly reduces the working strength - and are very common in "non new" rigging
The cost of 3 new stays (2 side, 1 fore) = $200 (estimate)
the cost of a new mast (that broke when it fell) = 1000 (est)
new bow (that the mast hit) = $1000 (give or take)
New mainsail (that the falling mast killed) - $1000
trip to the ER (when the mast just fell over at the beach)= $3000 -$10,000 (give or take)
repairs to the car next to yours (that you hit with a falling mast) - $700 (give or take)
i am sure you see my point - it is a good safety measure to replace any critical component that has any chance of real damage to person or property - including shackles, rigging, lines, tramps etc
these 3 cables are the difference between a fun day sailing and an expensive day or worse
Here in salt water: i change my rigging every 2 years or less - I just demasted a few months ago (i didn't change them at thanksgiving like i wanted to) The only damage i did was: rip my main, rip my wing tramp, remove a good bit of awgrip paint off my wing, scratch and dent my wing, take the tow-of-shame back to the beach (oh yea, i was getting sucked into a channel marker and it would have scratch the crap out of my boat if i actually made contact with that barnacle coated beast - i used my paddle to push off it) ALL would have been avoided if i updated my rigging on my regular schedule
Rigging used exclusively in fresh water usually lasts much longer - so let's say 3x = every 6 years - but still susceptible to weakening through rust, kinks, broken strands, or just metal fatigue
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sorry - but i don't think it's very practical to fish off a beach cat- but don't let me stop you ymmv
your cat (supercat) is a very (Very) wet boat -aka lots of water gets splashed up the hulls - it's much worse under the tramp
IMHO - your pvc tubes are gonna get lots of spray /non stop, and your rods and reels are gonna get soaked non stop (i'm no fisherman but i think that is not great for your reels??)
and your gonna go through wakes and waves - your rods and reels better be VERY securely attached or they will not be there later.
Edited by MN3 on Jun 13, 2017 - 03:04 PM. -
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Posted: Jun 13, 2017 - 04:46 PM
Again, All rigging will be inspected before each use, and if it needs replacement it will get it. What I don't quite understand is simply replacing it because its 'old'. If that was the case I'd wouldn't have gotten this boat. kind of the same thing as changing the oil in your car, maybe you only drive a few hundred miles a year, or you are a travelling salesman putting 40k a year on it. You put it well... ymmv lol.
As for the PVC, ratchet straps and a 6" pipe with a cap on one end and screw thread access on the other and it'll be watertight and quite secure. Heck I could run a few ice fishing rods in holders and just let them float. -
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Posted: Jun 13, 2017 - 05:26 PM
Exactly. Everyone wins. -
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Posted: Jun 13, 2017 - 07:48 PM
Images work, but you need the url of the actual image, not the page the image is on. Photobucket makes this harder than it should be, the "share" urls they provide on the image page all link to the page the image is on, so they can show their ads along with the image.
To get the actual image url, view the image and depending on the browser and computer (mac or pc) you can right-click, control-click and in the context menu choose something like copy image url or copy image location. Alternatively choose "open image in new tab" and then the url of the tab is the url of the image.
Once you have that, then just place the url between the Image tags produced by the Image button.
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Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN
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Posted: Jun 13, 2017 - 08:00 PM
I'm not picturing the 6 inch PVC slung underneath the tramp while sailing? You've seen someone do this?
There is at least one Hobie 16 sailor that regularly fishes in the Gulf of Mexico and brings in large gamefish, even sharks! Sailing out through the surf, boat rigged with rod holders and milk crates for storage. And a pistol to dispatch the unruly fish that doesn't want to come aboard.
It should be noted that this dude is a certified badass. Got to find that picture after he caught a 6+ foot shark, brought it back through the surf, and then used the main halyard to lift if up for a picture.
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Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN
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How To Create Your Own Cool Avatar
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Posted: Jun 13, 2017 - 11:49 PM
If I was in your position I would unload that Supercat as fast as possible. They are awful and unsafe boats. Just to help you out I will give you one Benjamin over the couple you paid for it.
The few folks who know me and the many that know Supercats realize the lie I just told ( I love 'em). But really, if your just gonna use it to fish or putt around the lake, there's a lot of gulf coast and maybe Midwest guys that would definitely put it to its intended purpose of sailing fast (and getting wet).
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Tim
Collierville (Memphis), TN
Supercat 15--sold :(
Hobie monocat--given
Vanguard 15--traded for...
Nacra 4.5--sold
Nacra 5.7
Hobie 14–sold to make room for...
Supercat 17–sold
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Posted: Jun 14, 2017 - 09:24 AM
Great metaphor (oil changes) -regardless of driving 10,000 miles or 10 miles - you need to change your oil every year or you risk oil failure which leads to very bad things
Changing out 11 - 35 year old standing rigging is called preventative maintenance. you don't have to do it but for a pretty small amount of money you remove a decent amount of risk which could have catastrophic results
I have had 1 bow tang failure, 1 side tang failure, and 1 side-stay failure in the past 8 years on my 5.5 - none of them showed any signs of cracking or broken strands. all failures were internal where you can't see or inspect.
2 year old stay that looked perfect - had internal spot of rust - not uncommon - caused a demasting about 200' offshore at the end of a great day - i was surrounded by kayaks, swimmers and SUP's and was very happy i didn't hit anyone with a mast
Bow Tang that looked ok but had a little bit of discoloration
U don't have to do it, don't have to listen to me, I am just trying to give you a tip
Now to your fishing gear: cool - go for it ! it can be done for sure, it's just not practical for a beach cat
I think you will find a heavy 6"pvc tube under your cat is not a good thing (for sailing) - but if your hell bent on doing it - enjoy 2 each their own
Edited by MN3 on Jun 14, 2017 - 09:34 AM. -
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Posted: Jun 14, 2017 - 11:54 AM
Thanks you. This is a new failure to me, I've never seen or heard of such a thing. I wonder if it has to do with the small diameter of the lines. I'll certainly be replacing in the near future considering the risk. Looks like new shrouds and mainstay are just $100 off ebay.
I am however curious on the tang failure. That seems like it would have been the result of long years hard sailing... is there any way to account for that? -
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Posted: Jun 14, 2017 - 12:37 PM
I strongly suggest you buy shrouds from a spar or rigging shop (or your local chandler) - not hardware stores not ebay (nor self made ones at west marine)
murrays.com
apsltd.com/
saltydogmarine.com/ (121.50 for your cat here including bridal wires) - https://www.saltydogmarine.com/shopping_cart.php
etc
many non spar shops use/sell sub cheap Chinese metal and are not a wise choice
Yup, years of hard sailing in salt water
I sail around 120 days a year, and have owned this boat for 9 years or so now.
hard sailing and constant tacking creates metal fatigue cycling (so does the heat and sun here in fl)
sailing in salt water creates perfect conditions for rust and galvanic corrosion -
Beach catamarans are built to be as light as possible, and i would bet that boat dealers really wouldn't mind if your boat fell apart after a few years - and had to buy another. That means spars and fasteners are expected to last a few years of hard use - anything more than that and ... you are "out of your warranties life span".
Edited by MN3 on Jun 14, 2017 - 01:21 PM. -
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Posted: Jun 14, 2017 - 01:42 PM
The Ebay ones are actually through salty dog interestingly enough. I am curious on why you are against self made? 35 cents a foot and $5 in fasteners would give me each shroud line for $12 (plus 30 for the swaging tool). I'm all for a logical reason to not do this, but working load on a 1/8" SS line is still only 350lbs (breaking 1760lbs), and using the appropriate tools and methods seems like a great way to have solid cables without the $$$$ of custom made items. -
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Posted: Jun 14, 2017 - 01:59 PM
Do they contain the bridal wires for $100? incredibly good deal to upgrade them for 20 (i paid over 100 for mine last time) - ps support salty dog by buying direct so they don't have to pay ebay a cut
Why not west marine?
1. where does west marine get it's metal? what quality is it? how is their cost so low (when everything else in the store is insanely expensive and grossly marked up)
2. 99% of the staff do not have a clue about how to properly do ANYTHING with a sailboat - they will give out bad advice in a heartbeat
3. having matching sets of stays and bridals is an art that takes skill and practice - few have these
4. support your local or national sailing shop - they are closing doors all over the place and we need to support them
5. The shops i mentioned have the highest quality equipment and staff - does west marine ?
6. although it may happen, i have never heard of a swage or airplane fitting failing from those shops due to workmanship - i have heard several stories of people having failures with self made/w.marine gear
Edited by MN3 on Jun 14, 2017 - 02:00 PM. -
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Posted: Jun 14, 2017 - 03:23 PM
$120 plus shipping for a full set- https://www.saltydogmarin…835b95bab7e816f96ebfb31b
I would skip west marine entirely (for the reasons you mention above) and source the parts myself through my local suppliers with quality materials. Building matching sets isn't to hard when you have a jig (easy on a run of only 19', especially when I have a set to measure off of already). I can certainly see someone with no experience, or not crimping properly, having the line fail.
What I've come to realize is there seem to be two schools of though for all endeavors, the 'get it done as long as its safe', and the 'new/best or its not good enough'. neither are wrong, and one isn't better or worse than the other. I just happen to be in the first group. I bought this as a summer project for casual relaxed sailing, not as a restoration or racing piece, so there really is no reason to spend extra $$ on things that aren't critical to that end. Unfortunately this cat is too far gone for me to justify extra money where its not really needed.
All that said, the critical standing rigging will be replaced, and once I do have it on the water, things that are apparent to life and safety will be fixed as they come up. -
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Posted: Jun 14, 2017 - 03:27 PM
Also, Can someone ID the below pieces? they appear to be part of a furling jib assembly, but I'm not sure what I'm looking at.
*** Edit- Figured it out. Furling kit like this one, just old. https://www.westmarine.co…TZfqxzDaOrEH0hoCps7w_wcB
Edited by monkey4life on Jun 14, 2017 - 03:35 PM. -
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Posted: Jun 14, 2017 - 03:28 PM
for sure! i have 3 boats and 3 trailers - i juggle maintenance, repair and upgrades with available funds and needs
Good luck - hope you get her wet soon!
Keep us posted
