How important do most of you feel that Tell Tales help on the Luff of the Main when sailing with a Jib? When I acquired my cat it didn't have any Tell Tales on the Main at all and only 1 set on the Jib. I have added 2 more sets to the Jib and put 4 sets along the Leech of the Main. Someone recently told me I should have a set on the Luff too.
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Pete
2001 NACRA 450 SOLD
2000 NACRA 500 TOTAL LOSS
2004 NACRA INTER 20 SOLD
2016 NACRA 500 Sport
DeLand, FL
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Tell Tales
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Posted: Jul 06, 2017 - 03:26 PM
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Posted: Jul 06, 2017 - 03:35 PM
a think a few are a good idea -
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Posted: Jul 06, 2017 - 04:00 PM
One set at the mast hound, the other 1/4 to 1/3 of the way up from the foot of the main.
I do three in a row horizontally, starting about 12" back from the mast, with the second one starting where the first one ends. Each tuft is about 4 inches long. Put one set a little higher than the other so you can see the appropriate one through the sail.
These are called Gentry Tufts, and can warn you when you are stalling. A set on your jib can help there too.
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Prindle 18-2 #244 "Wakizashi"
Prindle 16 #3690 "Pegasus" Sold (sigh)
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Posted: Jul 06, 2017 - 09:08 PM
Sails stall from the tip down and from the leech forward. I've never been much off a fan of leech tell tails and I've never really found tell tails down low on the mainsail of a sloop rigged cat to be very useful. But I pretty much always put two sets of tell tails in the upper section of the mainsail 1/3rd of the way back from the mast. The first set goes on the 1st or 2nd panel from the top and the second set goes about 1/4 of the way down. These telltails will tell me in a glance if I am over or under sheeted.
Be cautious about putting too many sets of telltails on the sail. The objective is to be able to have a quick reference to tell you what your sail is doing, particularly if things don't feel right. You don't want to be sitting there staring at your sail trying to get 10 sets of ribbons to all flow perfectly because it'll never happen.
sm
Edited by Dogboy on Jul 06, 2017 - 09:13 PM. -
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Posted: Jul 07, 2017 - 09:27 AM
Ok sounds good. Thanks.
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Pete
2001 NACRA 450 SOLD
2000 NACRA 500 TOTAL LOSS
2004 NACRA INTER 20 SOLD
2016 NACRA 500 Sport
DeLand, FL
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Posted: Jul 08, 2017 - 10:16 AM
i mostly look at one set at the jib, near the luff, half way vertically and one at the leech of the main, at the third panel from the top or so. The latter is flowing but occasiinally falling when close hauled and flows all the time on a reach. Otherwise there is not enough twist. The jib tell tales quickly show ir the jib is stalled, normally meaning adjust direction. When sailing downwind i look more at relative wind direction, with tell tales on the bridle. Some tell tales didn't work for me: near the top of the jib (not quite visible and not always flows) and near the luff of the main 1/3 or 1/4 from the top -
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Posted: Jul 09, 2017 - 12:54 PM
Besides, tell-tails, has anyone used a Davis Telo-cat on their forestay?
Edited by martyr on Jul 09, 2017 - 11:39 PM.
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Marty
1984 Hobie 16 Redline Yellow Nationals, "Yellow Fever"
Opelika, Al / Lake Martin
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Posted: Jul 09, 2017 - 02:52 PM
Yes, you will break it sooner or later, it's always on the way when moving around on the beach or on the trailer, and it's too easy to forget about it. it's quite nice when it's there so i wouldn't advice to try it. Cassete tape or some other sort works too.
Edited by Andinista on Jul 09, 2017 - 02:53 PM. -
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Posted: Jul 09, 2017 - 06:59 PM
I have 2 telo-cats... one broken multiple times. Epoxy cant keep it together. The other sits in my room and is never used. Forest Gump VHS tape on the bridles is all I need. Once you stare at it long enough you don't need the little arms like the telo cat has. You can just tell when the wind shifts or you are sailing high/low.
A national level competitor from back in the day I got a boat from only sailed by a mast head fly and swore by it. I feel you have to be really good to do that because theres no way you are staring straight up all day. Mostly just sailing by the seat of your pants.
As for sail tell tails, I don't have a problem with a million streamers on my sail. If you want to learn what the wind is doing then the more the better. You don't have to look at all of them, but when I was new I liked having more. Now I have less. In races even fewer because I figure they are drag. An upper and a lower luff streamer on each sail and you are done. Having a leach streamer is nice if things are really funky and you are second guessing your main sheet tension because you can see how often the air is separating.
A lower luff isnt used much on the main but dang in shifting winds sometimes you dont realize whats going on and just pulling in the traveler and seeing if the lower set stalls can get you correct faster. -
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Posted: Jul 09, 2017 - 09:05 PM
I use a telocat on the H18. I find it useful when sailing downwind to pretty quickly gauge my angle relative to 90 degrees apparant. Upwind I rarely use it unless the wind is very light - I typically just go by the lower jib telltails and by feel. I don't use the arms, but I do tape a short length (about 8") of VHS tape to the back of it. This gives it a little more sensetivity in light wind and also makes it a little easier to judge the angle.
Also be sure to drill a small hole in the top of the telocat arm for a cotter pin or split ring. Otherwise the thing can slip out of the bracket in rough weather.
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Posted: Jul 09, 2017 - 09:41 PM
Yeah, my boat came with a Telo-cat and the previous owner had already drilled a hole in the top arm and it has a ring through it, he told me he had lost one before so, hence the ring. He even made a storage box out of a wooden cigar box, lined it with foam to store the thing in which has kept it in perfect shape.
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Marty
1984 Hobie 16 Redline Yellow Nationals, "Yellow Fever"
Opelika, Al / Lake Martin
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Posted: Jul 10, 2017 - 08:18 AM
+1 - tape on my bridal (both sides) is all in need - Rick White used to swear ABBA on reel to reel was fastest
I had lots on my last main - too many
at some point you are disrupting the air flow on your sail - there is a limit to what is needed and helpful (IMHO)
Edited by MN3 on Jul 10, 2017 - 08:19 AM. -
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Posted: Jul 13, 2017 - 09:33 AM
About that Telo-Cat, I know the little arms are called tacking arms but how exactly do they help one tack?
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Marty
1984 Hobie 16 Redline Yellow Nationals, "Yellow Fever"
Opelika, Al / Lake Martin
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Posted: Jul 13, 2017 - 09:55 AM
Mount it to your boom - if you get hit with it in the face, you should have tacked ?
obviously kidding - i can't think of how it would help any more than your sails would (i.e. if you are now backwinded, you should have tacked already...?)
the only benefit i noticed from it was it was easy to see my apparent wind and wind shifts - i now have tape on my bridals to do the same thing -
another HUGE benefit was: the plastic tube it came in is a great case for my brian Toss splicing tool (that has a fragile needle) and a few spare parts...
Edited by MN3 on Jul 13, 2017 - 11:17 AM. -
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Posted: Jul 13, 2017 - 12:14 PM
They don't really help you tack, they tell you what angle you're tacking through. For example, if you have them set at 90 degrees (relative to each other) and when you're sailing upwind, the back of the wind vane is lined up with the tacking arm, then you know you're sailing at 45 degrees relative to the apparent wind and tacking through 90 degrees. If the back of the wind vane is in front of the arm, then you know you're tacking through greater than 90 degrees (footing). A better name would be "reference arms."
Personally, I don't find the arms to be very useful because I mainly only use the telocat when sailing downwind. So I take them off. Instead, I judge my downwind angle by looking at the telocat relative to the leeward bridle wire. Since the bridle wire is slightly aft of the telocat, I know if the back of the vane is pointing at the wire, I'm sailing "hot" (less than 90 degrees apparent). If it is a little in front of the wire, I am at roughly 90 degrees. And if it is way in front of the wire, I am sailing deep. This can be helpful during a race, for example, immediately after you come out of a jibe. You can quickly check the bridle fly to make sure the boat is pointed in the right direction while you're still getting situated or adjusting your sails.
sm
Edited by Dogboy on Jul 13, 2017 - 12:16 PM. -
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Posted: Jul 14, 2017 - 09:45 AM
I use three of these per side on the jib, about 40% of the way back from the luff. On the main I use five per side, two above the hounds, 40% back, and three below the hounds, 50% back.
http://www.davisnet.com/product/air-flow-tels/
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