• gobigkahuna
  
  

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  Posted: Jul 10, 2017 - 03:09 PM

  I live on the coast in southeastern North Carolina. Thanks to the barrier islands, we have hundred of miles of protected waters and good wind but, unless you're in a dredged channel, the depths can be very shallow. There's a small boat ramp and dry storage business near me that would be an ideal place to keep my boat. I can keep the boat rigged on its trailer and launch it using the ramp right next to it. But unfortunately, the ramp is only 10 feet wide. In fact, every ramp within 20 miles of here is only 10-11 feet wide.
  
  So here's what I'm looking for:
  
  

  • No more than 10 feet in beam, 8.5 to 9 foot ideal
    
  • Able to keep mast up while on the trailer
    
  • Able to pull up the boards and beach the boat
    
  • Able to single hand or carry up to 3 passengers/crew
    
  • Able to overnight (use a pop-up tent on the trampoline or sleep in the hulls?)
    
  • Lots of hull volume to carry gear, water, food for extended trips
    
  • Forward tramp to carry lightweight gear (surfboards, etc.)
    
  • Beefy construction
    
  • Able to mount an outboard motor and extend the cruising range
    
  • Budget preferably under $10K but could increase if I could also use the boat for other purposes (such as 6 pax charters).
    

  
  
  Some of these items I can probably add to almost any cat. I looked at Stilettos, Reynolds and Warriors, but the beam is too wide for the ramp. I considered Corsair tri's, but they are pricey. After watching videos of the R2AK race and the adventures of people like Yvan BOURGNON I'm thinking of one of the 20 foot beach cats (SuperCat, Nacra 6.0 / 5.7 / 5.8 / Inter 20, Hobie 20, etc.) might work. Thoughts?

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• samc99us
  
  

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  Posted: Jul 10, 2017 - 03:19 PM

  This is a tough problem made more challenging by your location and budget. I might be leary of paying passengers, that often requires coast guard certified vessels and a captains license. Renting a boat out for a couple of hours might be possible.
  
  None of the boats you listed are really ideal for this purpose. "Beefy construction" describes none of them, all the Nacra's and the Supercats and 20' Hobies are race boats that are built on the light end of the scale. That is okay, but putting a forward tramp on them and carrying a lot of load is not good. Then you add the shallows to the mix and you have an issue-they are all daggerboard boats, which means you need a minimum of 4', usually 5-6' of water to comfortably sail.
  
  I would be looking at Hobie Getaway as an option, with pop up rudders and skegs instead of boards. They are built on the beefier/cruisiery side of life, but are not going to perform like a 20' racing catamaran. A tramp tent would work well for overnights. The other option I might consider but is tough with your ramp situation is a Tornado, 20' long with centerboards. Its not a cruiser either though. Something like a G-Cat 6.1 might be a good option for you (https://www.thebeachcats.com/pictures?g2_itemId=101690).

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• MN3
  
  

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  Posted: Jul 10, 2017 - 03:55 PM

  My mystere 6.0 in the classified section would accommodate most if not all of your needs
  https://www.thebeachcats.…-custom-mystere-6-0.html
  
  
  No more than 10 feet in beam, 8.5 to 9 foot ideal - 8.5
  Able to keep mast up while on the trailer - yup
  Able to pull up the boards and beach the boat - yup
  Able to single hand or carry up to 3 passengers/crew - yup
  Able to overnight (use a pop-up tent on the trampoline or sleep in the hulls?) - yup (tent)
  Lots of hull volume to carry gear, water, food for extended trips - yup
  Forward tramp to carry lightweight gear (surfboards, etc.) - custom netting for gear
  Beefy construction - somewhat - this cat was slightly overbuilt for safty
  Able to mount an outboard motor and extend the cruising range - yup
  Budget preferably under $10K - yup

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• gobigkahuna
  
  

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  Posted: Jul 10, 2017 - 04:05 PM

  Quote

  This is a tough problem made more challenging by your location and budget. I might be leary of paying passengers, that often requires coast guard certified vessels and a captains license. Renting a boat out for a couple of hours might be possible.

  
  
  Budget is rather flexible, but I'd prefer to keep it under $20K unless it's something I can justify for other reasons (such as chartering). I already have a license and have driven charter boats for a number of years. I was considering a Stiletto 27 which would be a good boat for charter work but wouldn't fit on the ramp here.
  
  

  Quote

  None of the boats you listed are really ideal for this purpose. "Beefy construction" describes none of them, all the Nacra's and the Supercats and 20' Hobies are race boats that are built on the light end of the scale. That is okay, but putting a forward tramp on them and carrying a lot of load is not good. Then you add the shallows to the mix and you have an issue-they are all daggerboard boats, which means you need a minimum of 4', usually 5-6' of water to comfortably sail.

  
  
  "Beefy" probably wasn't a good word to use, but of the cats on the market surely some are stronger / more durable than others? The forward tramp would be for -lightweight- gear assuming I used it at all. I'd also consider adding some inspection ports in the hulls to store food, etc. Again, not tons of stuff, but enough for a weekend or possibly a week.
  
  

  Quote

  I would be looking at Hobie Getaway as an option, with pop up rudders and skegs instead of boards. They are built on the beefier/cruisiery side of life, but are not going to perform like a 20' racing catamaran. A tramp tent would work well for overnights. The other option I might consider but is tough with your ramp situation is a Tornado, 20' long with centerboards. Its not a cruiser either though. Something like a G-Cat 6.1 might be a good option for you (https://www.thebeachcats.com/pictures?g2_itemId=101690).

  
  
  Not very interested in the Getaway (too small) but the G-Cat 6.1 is interesting. Why not a SuperCat 19? Don't their hulls have more volume than others? I also read that they could be sailed without the dagger boards?
  
  Another thought I had was to get a Reynolds 21 (12' beam) and cut the cross beams down to 10 foot. That would reduce its righting arm but I could compensate by using a smaller main and jib?

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• randii
  
  

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  Posted: Jul 10, 2017 - 04:06 PM

  The Getaway makes sense, the rotomolded hulls are pretty sturdy. Weight capacity may be an issue.
  
  "Very shallow" may rule out anything with daggerboards. There are boats with pop-up centerboards, though. Hobie's 21' Sportcruiser with wings might help you carry that weight, although the bigger 21SE would give better performance (maybe not an issue, I didn't see you really speak to performance in your initial post).
  
  Go and personally look at your closest launch ramps and measure them out precisely. Some published limits reflect the width of the paved ramp itself, and others reflect a cement slot in a seawall. If you're launching on a cement ramp with a dock on only one side (or no doc), and beach in either direction, odds are you can launch a wider boat than the ramp dictates. The only way to tell for sure is to eyeball it and measure it yourself. Some of the wider cats might be able to launch full-width if you used larger wheel/tires or taller-arched springs if you are constrained only by low-curbs.
  
  Randii

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• gobigkahuna
  
  

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  Posted: Jul 10, 2017 - 04:10 PM

  MN3

  My mystere 6.0 in the classified section would accommodate most if not all of your needs
  https://www.thebeachcats.…-custom-mystere-6-0.html
  
  
  No more than 10 feet in beam, 8.5 to 9 foot ideal - 8.5
  Able to keep mast up while on the trailer - yup
  Able to pull up the boards and beach the boat - yup
  Able to single hand or carry up to 3 passengers/crew - yup
  Able to overnight (use a pop-up tent on the trampoline or sleep in the hulls?) - yup (tent)
  Lots of hull volume to carry gear, water, food for extended trips - yup
  Forward tramp to carry lightweight gear (surfboards, etc.) - custom netting for gear
  Beefy construction - somewhat - this cat was slightly overbuilt for safty
  Able to mount an outboard motor and extend the cruising range - yup
  Budget preferably under $10K - yup

  
  
  Saw that. It's on my list... :)

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• gobigkahuna
  
  

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  Posted: Jul 10, 2017 - 04:17 PM

  Quote

  "Very shallow" may rule out anything with daggerboards. There are boats with pop-up centerboards, though. Hobie's 21' Sportcruiser with wings might help you carry that weight, although the bigger 21SE would give better performance (maybe not an issue, I didn't see you really speak to performance in your initial post).

  
  
  Depth in the protected sounds range from over 12 feet (in the ICW) to zero. There are large areas where the depth is 4+ feet deep.
  
  

  Quote

  Go and personally look at your closest launch ramps and measure them out precisely. Some published limits reflect the width of the paved ramp itself, and others reflect a cement slot in a seawall. If you're launching on a cement ramp with a dock on only one side (or no doc), and beach in either direction, odds are you can launch a wider boat than the ramp dictates. The only way to tell for sure is to eyeball it and measure it yourself. Some of the wider cats might be able to launch full-width if you used larger wheel/tires or taller-arched springs if you are constrained only by low-curbs.

  
  
  I've measured with a tape measure. Sides of the ramp are either concrete docks or pilings so no room for anything beyond 10-ish feet in beam.

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• FloridaRoadie
  
  

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  Posted: Jul 10, 2017 - 04:29 PM

  This guy has a cut down Reynolds 21 to a 8'6" beam. He was going to make it a power cat.
  Maybe he still has the mast and sails. It looks like he built a 8'6" beam trailer for it.
  Even if he doesn't have the mast and sails, you could add them yourself and be way under your budget.
  https://fortmyers.craigsl…/lee/boa/6136476573.html
  
  Greg
  
  --
  Prindle 18 w/ wings, Prindle 16, Prindle 15, current
  Hobie 16 in rebuild
  2 Hobie 18 past
  NACRA 5.2 past
  
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  member Lake Eustis Sail Club
  http://www.lakeeustissailingclub.org
  --

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• gobigkahuna
  
  

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  Posted: Jul 10, 2017 - 05:07 PM

  FloridaRoadie

  This guy has a cut down Reynolds 21 to a 8'6" beam. He was going to make it a power cat.
  Maybe he still has the mast and sails. It looks like he built a 8'6" beam trailer for it.
  Even if he doesn't have the mast and sails, you could add them yourself and be way under your budget.
  https://fortmyers.craigsl…/lee/boa/6136476573.html
  
  Greg

  
  
  That's another possibility...

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• Dogboy
  
  

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  Posted: Jul 10, 2017 - 09:16 PM

  Hobie 21 Sport Cruiser?
  
  Lots of storage, forward tramp area, gennaker option, roller furling mainsail with reef points, optional tramp tent, (relatively) shallow draft with kick up centerboards. It is 8.5 foot beam with removable wings. The wings would put the beam at over 10 feet, but they install into sockets in the hulls so they could pretty easily be put on after the boat is in the water.
  
  sm

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• gobigkahuna
  
  

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  Posted: Jul 10, 2017 - 09:45 PM

  Dogboy

  Hobie 21 Sport Cruiser?
  
  Lots of storage, forward tramp area, gennaker option, roller furling mainsail with reef points, optional tramp tent, (relatively) shallow draft with kick up centerboards. It is 8.5 foot beam with removable wings. The wings would put the beam at over 10 feet, but they install into sockets in the hulls so they could pretty easily be put on after the boat is in the water.
  
  sm

  
  
  The Hobie 21 SC sounds like a perfect fit. Beam (according to the manual) is 9' 6.5" which should just barely work. The fact that it has centerboards instead of dagger boards is a plus. Now where can I find one for sale?
  
  How about a Hobie 21 SE? From what I can tell it's the same hull just a bigger rig. If I add a reef to the main would I be able to single hand it?
  
  
  
  Edited by gobigkahuna on Jul 10, 2017 - 11:00 PM.

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• Dogboy
  
  

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  Posted: Jul 11, 2017 - 06:25 AM

  The 21SC IS 8.5 feet wide (in order to be able to be trailered legally). The wings, when installed, add about 3-4 feet of additional width.
  
  The 21SE has an expandable crossbar design which goes from a road legal 8.5 foot beam to a sailing beam of 10 feet plus an additional 3-4 feet when the wings are installed. You would be able to fit the collapsed SE down your ramp but might have trouble with it expanded which would mean you would have to put the boat down the ramp, remove from trailer, expand the hulls, step the mast, rig the boat.
  
  The 21SE and SC both use the same hulls (more or less), but they are very different boats. The SE was a purpose built racing boat and does not include most if not all of the cruising features found on the SC.
  
  sm

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• MN3
  
  

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  Posted: Jul 11, 2017 - 09:23 AM

  Quote

  How about a Hobie 21 SE? From what I can tell it's the same hull just a bigger rig. If I add a reef to the main would I be able to single hand it?
  

  
  even if you can solo sail it - the other question is: can you rig/launch and recover it solo? (better have some powered assist and a great "system")

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• samc99us
  
  

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  Posted: Jul 11, 2017 - 11:20 AM

  Exactly MN3. A Hobie 21 is a big, big boat, with an all up weight of 700 lbs. Some good information here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobie_Cat#Hobie_21SE
  
  Another boat you might consider is a Prindle 19, which is in essence a baby Tornado.

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• Dogboy
  
  

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  Posted: Jul 11, 2017 - 12:33 PM

  I believe they "claimed" that the Hobie 21 SC could be righted single handed with the use of shroud extenders and mast float, both of which were standard items. The 21 SE may be a different story.
  
  Either way, the above posts are correct, the Hobie 21's (both versions) were big and very heavy boats by most standards (600-700 lbs + gear). Moving either of them around solo on the beach would be a challenge, but if you're talking about ramp launching, it would probably be doable. You would just need a good winch to pull the boat up on the trailer. I think the solo setup, launching, and width limitations associated with the 21 SE would probably rule that one out for you.
  
  sm

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• DamonLinkous
  
  

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  Posted: Jul 11, 2017 - 03:08 PM

  Dogboy

  
  
  The 21SE and SC both use the same hulls (more or less), but they are very different boats. The SE was a purpose built racing boat and does not include most if not all of the cruising features found on the SC.
  
  sm

  
  Also the 21SC has a different rig, basically a Hobie 18 mast and sails, still a lot of power but relative to other beachcats, not as overpowered.
  
  --
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  1992 Hobie 18
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• MN3
  
  

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  Posted: Jul 11, 2017 - 03:31 PM

  Quote

  basically a Hobie 18 mast and sails,

  
  
  So the mast is "burn off your hands" flat black colored ?
  
  
  
  Edited by MN3 on Jul 11, 2017 - 03:55 PM.

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• Dogboy
  
  

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  Posted: Jul 11, 2017 - 05:21 PM

  The mast on the 21SC uses the same extrusion that is used on the 21SE, just shorter and with a different comptip and main halyard configuration. It is a much larger cross section than the extrusion used on the 18 - it looks like a telephone pole by comparison.
  
  sm

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• gobigkahuna
  
  

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  Posted: Jul 11, 2017 - 06:23 PM

  MN3

  Quote

  How about a Hobie 21 SE? From what I can tell it's the same hull just a bigger rig. If I add a reef to the main would I be able to single hand it?
  

  
  even if you can solo sail it - the other question is: can you rig/launch and recover it solo? (better have some powered assist and a great "system")

  
  
  Hmmm... Good point. I hadn't considered how difficult it might be to ramp launch the boat by myself. Might be a tad difficult. I'll need to think about that a bit...

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• nohuhu
  
  

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  Posted: Jul 11, 2017 - 07:24 PM

  There's an SE and SC at the club. The SE, at least has a righting pole built in. You might find it included.
  
  Also there's an ARC 22, looks like a real monster, but carbon fiber and very light/fast. Have you considered an ARC 21? The 22 owner says hard to flip and easy to right. Hard to find one, of course.
  
  Both big boat owners LOVE their rides.
  
  --
  Prindle 18
  96734
  --

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