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Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
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What's wrong with this picture?
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Posted: Oct 12, 2017 - 05:50 PM
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Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
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Posted: Oct 12, 2017 - 06:25 PM
That is one unhappy, upside-down, dis-masted Dart 15!
At least it is surrounded by good company in good shape, so it has to know that things will be right soon enough.
And where is that Ackermann inspired rudder system?
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Sheet In!
Bob
_/)_____/)_/)____/)____/)_____/)/)__________/)__
Prindle 18-2 #244 "Wakizashi"
Prindle 16 #3690 "Pegasus" Sold (sigh)
AZ Multihull Fleet 42 member
(Way) Past Commodore of Prindle Fleet 14
Arizona, USA
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Posted: Oct 13, 2017 - 10:54 AM
Dirty rudders on the Nacra?
so ...
what's the plan now?
Edited by MN3 on Oct 13, 2017 - 11:04 AM. -
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Posted: Oct 13, 2017 - 11:18 AM
What's wrong ? Too many boats ! Pete -
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Posted: Oct 13, 2017 - 12:58 PM
After retrieval & inspection it turns out the lunchbucket who originally built the boat, in Jolly Olde England didn't quite take enough care with the mast sealing.
Appx 4" up from the mast base is a plug of some sort, that is sealed via a liberal smear of some dark brown compound. Unfortunately, for me, they missed a small corner, resulting in a 1/8" gap. The sheave for the main halyard is between the mast base & this plug, & uses a hollow rivet. This allows water between the base & plug, & the substandard plug allowed the mast to fill.
Even towing with a powerboat we couldn't right it on the lake, so I unpinned the shrouds, hauled the mast up beside the boat, removed the sail, then put the mast across the turtled Cat & towed everything home.
The initial plan was to just leave it upside down in the bay overnight, but enough other boaters came buy to effect a rescue. I did notify the police to prevent expensive assets being mobilized if someone reported an upside down boat with no one around.
I couldn't flip the carcass by myself, nor could I get it up on the lawn. It sat upside down for a couple of days, got it flipped & hauled yesterday. It's kind of a b*tch to flip with only two people. We tied a line from bow & stern of the outside hull to one of the boat lift in order to prevent things from wanting to slide away while we lifted the inside hull. In hindsight we probably should have lifted it just few inches, then popped the hatch. That would have instantly drained the water & made the job easier.
On the lawn, along with the rest of the removed parts. It was a bit of a challenge to remove the shroud pins, as they were underwater, & under tension. I had to use pliers to yank the pins out. Amazingly, we never lost a single part. I fully expected ring dings, pins, pliers to be expendable, but we managed to hang onto everything. I probably should have tied a line to the rudders, as they are only held in place by a spring tab, but they stayed on for the tow home.
I have everything back on the lawn. Removed the mast base, (had to go buy a 3/16" cobalt bit), found the problem. As soon as things are fully dried out I can re-seal & reassemble. Just thinking about what product will stick to aluminum & what they used for a sealant. Plus my spare sail is very clean!
My wife has mentioned that several times, so I sold the canoe this summer.
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Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
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Posted: Oct 13, 2017 - 01:31 PM
sounds ... exciting!
glad everything sounds undamaged
what do you mean had it flipped and hauled ? -
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Posted: Oct 13, 2017 - 03:36 PM
I had to do that once in the late 90s... I still remember the slow drag across the lake. Not my proudest moment, but it sure has inspired watertight mast maintenance since!
Class!
3M 5200 sealant will stick to damn near anything -- this is its strength AND weakness. I was surprised to see this stocked at my local Lowes, too. Handy.
Blasphemy. That's like too many motorcycles, or too many toys. Unpossible... though I have found it is possible to have too little storage or too much maintenance.
Randii -
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Posted: Oct 13, 2017 - 05:21 PM
Strong work, and good choice. :)
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Sheet In!
Bob
_/)_____/)_/)____/)____/)_____/)/)__________/)__
Prindle 18-2 #244 "Wakizashi"
Prindle 16 #3690 "Pegasus" Sold (sigh)
AZ Multihull Fleet 42 member
(Way) Past Commodore of Prindle Fleet 14
Arizona, USA
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Posted: Oct 13, 2017 - 05:58 PM
After resting upside down for a couple days, tied to the side of the N5.0, some muscle showed up. We "flipped" it rightside up, then "hauled" it onto the lawn.
The Baby Darts don't have drain plugs, the gudgeon is right at the keel. There is a port at the stern so we used a float pump, requisitioned from my days pumping floats as a bush pilot on Twin Otters & Turbo Beavers, to quickly remove the couple of gallons from each hull.
If the wife wasn't gung ho on this kitchen tear out, & I don't have the 3 monel rivets for the mast base, I think it could be seaworthy tomorrow. Even for an old guy, stepping the mast is a one man job.
I'm going to try spraying a rubber waterproofing compound inside the mast, where the plug leaks, though i think f the base is sealed properly it will suffice.
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Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
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Posted: Oct 13, 2017 - 06:35 PM
gotcha - hauled up the lawn
i am very familiar with the dart 18 and 20 - sailed them a bunch
i would imagine the 15 is very similar -
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Posted: Oct 13, 2017 - 08:07 PM
I've sailed against the 18, with my N5.7. They are undercanvassed boats, a bit doggish on the light days. I've had this one out twice in just over 30mph, & they are a blast.
Reading the racing reports from the UK, it seems sailing in 40, gusting to 45 is when they call it a day.
I'm eating some crow right now, as I championed the boat as being able to go out when everyone else is on the beach, & not caring if I flipped, no rescue crew necessary, hell 16 year olds solo right them from turtle.
Didn't quite work out this time.
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Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
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Posted: Oct 13, 2017 - 11:35 PM
Glad people and cat are ok.
Some sort of bladder for inside the mast would be a good way to prevent turtling. Maybe an air mattress type long segment would do, if they could be sourced with one valve per chamber. A couple pounds in the mast would be tolerable.
This would be handy on my boat, if an anti chaffe tube could be used for the internal halyard.
Edited by ctcataman on Oct 14, 2017 - 12:36 AM.
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John
Nacra 5.0
CT
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Posted: Oct 14, 2017 - 05:25 AM
I should stuff mine full of those little clear air bladders that ship with all my wife’s amazon orders. I have quite a collection. Enuff to fill a hull by now.
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Prindle 18
96734
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Posted: Oct 14, 2017 - 04:17 PM
I read your story and wondered "What are the odds that all that would happen in the same day, in one place, to one guy?"
Mother Nature is a harsh mistress.
After a good day of sailing, whether racing or cruising, I feel both joy and thankfulness for a successful day.
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Sheet In!
Bob
_/)_____/)_/)____/)____/)_____/)/)__________/)__
Prindle 18-2 #244 "Wakizashi"
Prindle 16 #3690 "Pegasus" Sold (sigh)
AZ Multihull Fleet 42 member
(Way) Past Commodore of Prindle Fleet 14
Arizona, USA
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Posted: Oct 14, 2017 - 09:44 PM
Got the mast inside today, getting it fully dried out. I'll have to get the inside cleaned up before sealing. I'm going to try a spray rubber product called Flex Seal. Supposed to be for sealing aluminum gutters etc. Plus it should be very easy to spray a few coats around the entire area.
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Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
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Posted: Oct 15, 2017 - 02:25 PM
I would think that Flex Seal should work, stay flexible, and not absorb water. Just don't saw your boat in half Lol!
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Marty
1984 Hobie 16 Redline Yellow Nationals, "Yellow Fever"
Opelika, Al / Lake Martin
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Posted: Oct 16, 2017 - 11:05 AM
I'm not a fan of using any "seen on tv" product for boat repairs.
Have you done due diligence on this product?
How will it handle the conditions? how long will it last?
i have NO knowledge of this product but did a 1 second search and found this from consumerreports
https://www.consumerrepor…al-claim-check/index.htm
"The check. Imitating the video for Flex Seal, we made our own tiny rowboat with a screen bottom, ...
then
"Bottom line. All aboard. Flex Seal floated our boat, and Teddy stayed dry. But with other uses, we hit rough seas. It took three coats of Flex Seal to plug the pipe holes, and larger holes blew out under water pressure. Even three coats didn’t seal vertical sections of our gutter’s end caps and joints:"
.
I would be much more inclined to get some epoxy or polyester resin in there
something that is know to last a few dozen years
or some other industrial grade product that will withstand the weather changes that inside that mast see's -
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Posted: Oct 16, 2017 - 03:34 PM
I would be much more inclined to get some epoxy or polyester resin in there
something that is know to last a few dozen years
or some other industrial grade product that will withstand the weather changes that inside that mast see's[/quote]
I have some experience with Flex seal and I wouldn't use it for sealing anything on my boat. I used it in a couple of gutter related repair projects that were way too odd to try and describe here. Bottom line is that it really didn't hold up in a type of project that it was made for and far less demanding than our Cats.
+1 on MN3's comments about using something more proven to all of us sailors.
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Supercat 15
Windrider 17
Several Sunfish and Sunfish clones
Ratboat built from Zuma and Sunfish parts
Shallow water sailor in the Delaware Bay
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Posted: Oct 16, 2017 - 06:49 PM
Well, alrighty then...
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Marty
1984 Hobie 16 Redline Yellow Nationals, "Yellow Fever"
Opelika, Al / Lake Martin
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Posted: Oct 25, 2017 - 10:09 PM
OK, flex Seal is out. I don't think any sort of resin is a fix. The mast base, after removal & clean up should be an easy fix by marine silicone around the base & flange.
The bigger problem is the middle of the mast. Most of these were supplied as the more expensive 2 piece mast, in order to car top the Cat, & many,(most) in the UK use this option. A tremendous number of D15 sailors travel a racing circuit, (they sail all year long), & the 2 pc mast avoids extra charges on ferries, + it allows them to haul a travel trailer by car-topping. Most of the sailing clubs have camping areas.
The join is a simple male plug on the top section, that fits into the female bottom section. There is an internal plug inside the mast, at the top of the bottom section. These masts were ahead of their time, tapered, & quite flexible. They can be bent with downhaul. This means the area at the joint also flexes & is hard to keep sealed. It is also 10' underwater if turtled, creating a fair amount of static head.
Anything stiff, like resin, would quickly crack, & it would be hard to obtain good adhesion to aluminum. That made my initial thought of Flex Seal.
The "stub" is 11 1/4" long, the receiving socket is 13", so I only have 1.75" "free".
I'm now thinking something like Grace ice/water shield, the membrane they use on roofing. I can place it over a dowel, push it down into the mast, then tamp the bottom in place, then using a piece of pipe, roll the edges against the mast wall. The stuff seals itself around nails pounded through roof membranes, adheres extremely well, yet is very flexible. I think it would be better than pouring a bunch of marine silicone, & smearing it around the perimeter. The Grace Water shield adheres strongly enough that it will pull the top layer of plywood off if you try to remove it from a roof.
Edited by Edchris177 on Oct 25, 2017 - 10:13 PM.
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Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
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