Harken 10:1 mainsheet :: Catamaran Sailboats at TheBeachcats.com

Harken 10:1 mainsheet

emmettv

Rank: Lubber

Registered: Jun 30, 2012

Last visit: Jul 29, 2024

Posts: 61
Posted: Dec 25, 2017 - 11:41 AM

I saw a few older conversations on updating to a 10:1 . I have a Prindle 19mx with an original 6:1 sheet. I see a great deal on a 10:1 but not sure of the advantages . I am not racing and split seconds not a concern, but I do appraciate more modern updates to the boat. I know the cons of the extra line on the tramp and the slower reaction of the line coming in or going out . Are there worth while advantages on this type of boat ? And how much line is required on these ?
MN3

Rank: Master Chief

Registered: Jun 20, 2006

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Posts: 7089
Posted: Dec 25, 2017 - 12:08 PM

I would def suggest an upgrade to a modern block if you have the funds
8:1 is enough
9:1 nice
10:1 prob overkill if your not a racer

advantages :
more purchases = less energy needed from skipper to sheet in full sail or hold a sheeted sail (you know the cons)
lighter gear
typically lower profile (more range)
Ladies dig new gear (jk)

how much line? i dunno your boat that well but lets say 10-15% more per additional purchase?
you MIGHT be able to make up for a few purchases with a longer travler line but if your upgrading - time for a nice new tapered mainsheet too
Andinista

Rank: Mate

Registered: Aug 18, 2003

Last visit: Dec 13, 2023

Posts: 880
Posted: Dec 25, 2017 - 04:57 PM

MN3
more purchases = less energy needed from skipper to sheet in full sail or hold a sheeted sail

not exaclty
What is reduced is the force, times more sheet lenght to pull equals the same energy to sheet in.
Energy to hold the sail is 0 in both cases. Force is different
Wolfman

Rank: Chief

Registered: Jun 24, 2009

Last visit: Jun 15, 2023

Posts: 1555
Posted: Dec 25, 2017 - 10:35 PM

I upgraded from a 7:1 to a 9:1 on my Nacra 5.7. I would never go back.

--
Dave Bonin
1981 Nacra 5.2 "Lucile"
1986 Nacra 5.7 "Belle"
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
--
MN3

Rank: Master Chief

Registered: Jun 20, 2006

Last visit: May 22, 2024

Posts: 7089
Posted: Dec 26, 2017 - 09:26 AM

Andinista
MN3
more purchases = less energy needed from skipper to sheet in full sail or hold a sheeted sail

not exaclty
What is reduced is the force, times more sheet lenght to pull equals the same energy to sheet in.
Energy to hold the sail is 0 in both cases. Force is different

Technically you are correct -
i was over simplifying the terms, trying not to get too scientific

to the human at the end of the blocks: (ceteris paribus)

you can sheet all day and feel less muscle fatigue than if you had a lesser purchase system
and expend less Joules (1 kg*(m/s)^2) to hold a sheeted mainsheet in the same position over any length of time
lakewateree

Rank: Mate

Registered: Oct 31, 2010

Last visit: Oct 24, 2024

Posts: 195
Posted: Dec 26, 2017 - 12:31 PM

Just spend the Christmas money and get the new Harken GP (Grand-Prix) system. Can go 10;1, 11:1, or 12:1!

http://www.harken.com/pro…aspx?id=47404&taxid=8923

--
Mac
Midlands South Carolina
AHPC Viper USA 366
A Cat USA 366
Super Cat 17
--
emmettv

Rank: Lubber

Registered: Jun 30, 2012

Last visit: Jul 29, 2024

Posts: 61
Posted: Dec 26, 2017 - 02:08 PM

Wow..this can double duty as as the marina boat lift on windless days .
$1500 !! Santa was not that generous . I think I'll keep with the 10:1 idea .
davefarmer

Rank: Mate

Registered: Oct 26, 2002

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Posts: 390
Posted: Dec 26, 2017 - 06:20 PM

Sent you a pm Emmitt.

Dave
Andinista

Rank: Mate

Registered: Aug 18, 2003

Last visit: Dec 13, 2023

Posts: 880
Posted: Dec 27, 2017 - 08:34 AM

MN3
to the human at the end of the blocks: (ceteris paribus)

you can sheet all day and feel less muscle fatigue than if you had a lesser purchase system
and expend less Joules (1 kg*(m/s)^2) to hold a sheeted mainsheet in the same position over any length of time

See it this way:
Do you feel less hungry at the end of the day? No, because you haven't spent less joules.
Your muscles feel different? Yes, because you applied less Newtons.
equal need of beer will verify that the experiment was ceteris paribus.
klozhald

Rank: Chief

Registered: Apr 19, 2011

Last visit: Sep 25, 2024

Posts: 1459
Posted: Dec 27, 2017 - 12:32 PM

AndinistaYour muscles feel different? Yes, because you applied less Newtons.
equal need of beer will verify that the experiment was ceteris paribus.

Wait- did you say beer?

--
Sheet In!
Bob
_/)_____/)_/)____/)____/)_____/)/)__________/)__
Prindle 18-2 #244 "Wakizashi"
Prindle 16 #3690 "Pegasus" Sold (sigh)
AZ Multihull Fleet 42 member
(Way) Past Commodore of Prindle Fleet 14
Arizona, USA
--
klozhald

Rank: Chief

Registered: Apr 19, 2011

Last visit: Sep 25, 2024

Posts: 1459
Posted: Dec 28, 2017 - 11:26 AM

uh, you lost me after "less Joules (1 kg*(m/s)^2)".
Last time I dealt with "joules" it was on a defibrillator.

I prefer this equation when talking about catamarans:
Ballast = Bikinis x Beer
I'm sure that there are values to the B3 equation above that would allow calculation of Total Fun Acquired, or Belches per Knot...

Forgive the diversion.

--
Sheet In!
Bob
_/)_____/)_/)____/)____/)_____/)/)__________/)__
Prindle 18-2 #244 "Wakizashi"
Prindle 16 #3690 "Pegasus" Sold (sigh)
AZ Multihull Fleet 42 member
(Way) Past Commodore of Prindle Fleet 14
Arizona, USA
--
arch

Rank: Mate

Registered: Jan 25, 2004

Last visit: Apr 06, 2021

Posts: 267
Posted: Dec 28, 2017 - 04:55 PM

i recall having a conversation with jack young of Nacra years ago regarding the dangers of having too much purchase for the sail on a cat. while it's easier to 'sheet-in' with a 10:1 than a 9:1, 8:1, 7:1, etc. he said the reason they didn't put greater purchase on boats is to reduce the chance that the mainsail could be pulled with such force as to damage the sail or 'overbend' the mast.
j

--
Aquacat 12 (sold)...'87 Nacra 5.8 (sold)...'03 Nacra Inter18 (sold)
Venture 15 (sold)....'89 Nacra 5.8 (sold)...'91 Nacra 5.8NA (sold)
'99 Nacra Inter20 (sold)
--
emmettv

Rank: Lubber

Registered: Jun 30, 2012

Last visit: Jul 29, 2024

Posts: 61
Posted: Dec 30, 2017 - 08:55 AM

I can understand this , but why then do all the performance cats now come with the 10:1 ? Capricorn, C2, Nacra 17 Olympic , Nacra 20 , Tornado..etc..etc ? Stronger Carbon masts ?
klozhald

Rank: Chief

Registered: Apr 19, 2011

Last visit: Sep 25, 2024

Posts: 1459
Posted: Dec 30, 2017 - 06:34 PM

emmettvStronger Carbon masts ?

Yes, and completely different sail cloth/construction techniques on the mainsail.

--
Sheet In!
Bob
_/)_____/)_/)____/)____/)_____/)/)__________/)__
Prindle 18-2 #244 "Wakizashi"
Prindle 16 #3690 "Pegasus" Sold (sigh)
AZ Multihull Fleet 42 member
(Way) Past Commodore of Prindle Fleet 14
Arizona, USA
--
MN3

Rank: Master Chief

Registered: Jun 20, 2006

Last visit: May 22, 2024

Posts: 7089
Posted: Jan 01, 2018 - 10:26 AM

emmettvI can understand this , but why then do all the performance cats now come with the 10:1 ? Capricorn, C2, Nacra 17 Olympic , Nacra 20 , Tornado..etc..etc ? Stronger Carbon masts ?

yes and no
Cap, C2 - older N20's and tornado's had alum masts
but bendier than older extrusions
and did not come with 10:1

plus as mentioned the cloth is very different and holds shape much longer than dacron

Edited by MN3 on Jan 01, 2018 - 10:27 AM.