I have the original Skip Elliott sail for my old 82 square which according to the square guys I've talked to from back in the day was the sail to have for racing at the time. After spending some time doing a little maintenance on it I realized that there is no broad seaming on the sail at all, aka multiple panels to help control draft position. It's one giant 30 foot piece of dacron. It gets all the shape from a very pronounced luff curve and tapered foam sandwich battens.
I'd be curious if the 5.2 and other popular models from the 80s with Skip Elliott sails didn't have broad seaming either. The sail's shape is pretty dang spot on how I like it, not that I could do anything with foam sandwich battens but I'm so used to seeing some sort of broad seaming that I'm honestly pretty impressed how well it's shaped for being such a simple construction.
I mean I could sew a duplicate of this sail myself pretty quick just by tracing out the old luff curve. I'm already feeling a fun winter project coming...
NACRA people with old Skip Elliott sails chime in
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Posted: Jan 05, 2018 - 04:21 AM
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Posted: Jan 05, 2018 - 12:06 PM
I have a couple of original Skip Elliot sails for the 5.7, from '84, & the 5.0 ('88), also has the original sail.
All are as you described. The 5.7 will still go over 20mph in a blow, & I can get home,(albeit slowly) when nary a ripple shows on the water. (there must be a tiny touch of breeze up near the mast head).
I think sewing a new one is more involved than stitching some dacron together.
The bolt rope comes to mind.
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Posted: Jan 05, 2018 - 01:04 PM
Interesting. I really didn’t think you could make a sail and have proper pocket position with a flat piece of Dacron but there you go.
nah don’t let that bolt rope intimidate you. Slap a hem foot on the machine and rock and roll. I’ve done the same on the bolt rope on the tramp I sewed up. Without broad seaming there’s really nothing that technical to it. Especially when you have the old one to copy. I’m going to make one for sure. I’ll make a post to share the fun.
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Posted: Jan 05, 2018 - 01:30 PM
Sounds great!
just like this, right?
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Posted: Jan 05, 2018 - 04:24 PM
Literally identical lol
The world will come to fear my DIY powers
Edited by tamumpower1 on Jan 05, 2018 - 11:35 PM. -
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Posted: Jan 05, 2018 - 05:37 PM
just remember i'm on your side !
Edited by MN3 on Jan 05, 2018 - 05:43 PM. -
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Posted: Jan 05, 2018 - 07:02 PM
I'm not familiar with the term "broad seaming"? could you elaborate?
I thought horizontal panel sails like the ones posted by Edchris177 were made of of individual sailcloth panels at each batten location, which is how they got the different color panels.
Are you saying our sail is literally one piece of sailcloth from top to bottom?
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Posted: Jan 05, 2018 - 08:31 PM
I have the original 1984 dacron Skip Elliott sail for my N-5.7. Still in service, but it tends to get very deep in the luff in higher winds. A simple sail with the original foam battens. This is from the past summer.
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Posted: Jan 05, 2018 - 09:01 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadseam
Broadseam is a term particular to the making of a sail. The panels that make up the sections of a sail are cut with curves on the connecting edges or seams. This method adds a three dimensional shape to what would ordinarily be a flat triangular or quadrilateral piece of fabric. Since a sail is a type of airfoil, this method of sail making adds significantly to the amount of draft a sail can have.
Edited by MN3 on Jan 05, 2018 - 09:01 PM. -
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Posted: Jan 05, 2018 - 10:53 PM
I had a new old stock cross cut multicolor main I got for the color sail cloth in it to make a matching jib for my main. i cut all the stitches in the seams and deconstructed it, I was not aware of broadseams at the time because the sail would lie flat before taking apart, but when I went to make the jib, I turned a panel over and the curb of the cut became apparent when placed against opposite curb cut in cloth. The half inch in five feet became a inch gap in the sail cloth overlap. When I put a straight edge on the cloth, you could see the 1/2" gap. This curve varied in the sail from zero to 1/2 inch depending where in the sail the panel came from. Also max curb of the cord was at 30 or 40 percent was also easily seen when panels reversed(luff to leach). There's a lot going on in a well made flat cut sail that's hard to see when the sail is laying flat on a surface. The luff curb is apparent, the broadseams not. It took a couple recuts of the luff curb and broadseams to get the shape I wanted in the jib. Took a lot of time , but gained a lot appreciation of what a sailmaker does to make a sail.
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Posted: Jan 05, 2018 - 11:36 PM
My sail is solid white. On some Hobie sails like on my H18s a lot of the colors are dyed onto the sail and it's not different panels anyway. Not sure about the sail above but even if its panels it doesnt mean they were broad seamed necessarily. Could have just been sewn flat.
Edited by tamumpower1 on Jan 06, 2018 - 12:36 AM. -
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Posted: Jan 06, 2018 - 10:14 AM
+1
I was always underestimating how much work goes into something SIMPLE like a luff repair
just removing the batten pockets is large production that if done wrong (and even just the fact of re-stitching/perforating the sailcloth) can have dramatic effect on the form/fit/function and lifespan of that sail -
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Posted: Jan 06, 2018 - 10:25 AM
sails haven't been sewn flat since the vikings invented the electric sewing machine (i think that's correct)
You might want to talk w Zack.. he was trained by Bob Johnson, retired local sail maker and (zack) has made a few dozen sails from scratch and probably has a lot of info
I commissioned a jib a few years ago
it sailed great but was made from a material that couldn't hold up to being furled and died a quick death -
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Posted: Jan 06, 2018 - 12:35 PM
I have made several sails now and modified more. I have never seen a sail made from one panel. When I was looking for colored sail cloth I was surprised to find Hobie was the driving force for colored sail cloth being available. When they switched to painted/dyied sail cloth in the eighties, color sail cloth selection became limited to few basic colors in Dacron. My understanding was that these multi color panels were still made on a roll that needed to be sewed together to form the sail after talking to sail cloth manufactures. They said they they would make any color or print I wanted as long as I ordered ten thousand yards. Most of the colored rolls we're 36" because it was the Hobie approximate batten spacing and generated the less waisted cloth. I would think a sail made out of one panel would generated a lot of waste, plus the overlapping seams generated the batten pockets which are more difficult to add after the cloth is sewed together or if it was cut from one panel.
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Posted: Jan 06, 2018 - 02:46 PM
Yea it seems odd to me to just be one panel. I haven't gone and specifically spent time hunting for seams(I will when I have the sail out tomorrow), but I was hand sewing on a sail window for a few days and was rolling and unrolling the sail multiple times and started glancing for seams passively and have just never seen a seam. -
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Posted: Jan 07, 2018 - 07:06 PM
Ok upon further inspection some of the batten pockets ARE the actual broad seam. Instead of the particular batten pockets being sewn onto the sail, the 2 panels are overlapped a few inches and the batten pocket is the gap between the 2 panels. Kind of stealth broad seam I wasn't looking for at all. I didn't count how many panels it is. Would be curious how many are actually there. -
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Posted: Jan 09, 2018 - 12:40 PM
My N5.2 has original Skip Elliott sails......
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Posted: Jan 09, 2018 - 12:42 PM
wowzers! that pic came out grainy??? -
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Posted: Jan 09, 2018 - 05:08 PM
It looks like you linked to a small thumbnail, so the preview in the post is a stretched version of the very small thumbnail. Click on the photo in your post and see the actual size.
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Posted: Jan 10, 2018 - 03:43 PM
....much better!
