Was about to make a gin pole for the Tornado. Anyone figure out how to combine a gin pole and something like the Murray Power Righting system? It probably just comes down to swapping fittings. Not sure if the Murray will drag too much, but seems like something handy.
If anyone has a good source for fittings, that would be handy since I can't weld aluminum. A yoke to pole would be ideal
Probably will use a 2 inch tube, about 8 feet long
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John
Nacra 5.0
CT
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Anyone combine a gin pole and a righting pole?
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Posted: Mar 23, 2018 - 11:16 AM
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Posted: Mar 26, 2018 - 09:15 AM
John,
I made a swivel fitting out of delrin rod that clamps to the dolphin striker rod on our tornado. I have never tried
it. I put some pictures of it in the technical photo album section. Attached is one picture.
Pete
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Pete Knapp
Schodack landing,NY
Goodall Viper,AHPC Viper,Nacra I20
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Posted: Mar 26, 2018 - 02:00 PM
That doesn’t look strong enough, a lot of force is applied there. I put something riveted to the beam and the rivets broke, instead of trying something stronger I decided to forget about the center of the beam. My righting pole hast a rope loop at the end that goes around the daggerboard (not a tornado). That’s strong and simple enough. Something else i’ve learned is that aluminum tube breaks easy, old carbon fiber winsldsurf mast did the job for me. -
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Posted: Mar 26, 2018 - 04:10 PM
The picture only shows the swivel anchor point. When rigged there would be lines attached to the beam which
would take a majority of the load. Never finished setting this up.
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Pete Knapp
Schodack landing,NY
Goodall Viper,AHPC Viper,Nacra I20
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Posted: Mar 27, 2018 - 02:03 AM
Are you trying to use a gen pole like the murrays setup? Or have it serve a dual purpose? Good luck reconnecting a spin or gen pole after you splash down and start making headway. Righting poles should face aft and can easily be tied up as you sail on. Too many lines holding a spin or gen pole to connect that are not reachable from the tramp. Not saying a block system couldn't work but maybe not worth the expense.
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David
Nacra 5.5SL
Nacra 5.2 (sold)
San Diego, CA
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Posted: Mar 27, 2018 - 07:16 AM
Dual purpose is the plan. Good thought of connectable from tramp.
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John
Nacra 5.0
CT
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Posted: Mar 27, 2018 - 10:46 AM
I thought he wanted it as a righting pole and gin pole,
Not a spin/gennaker pole and gin pole
Edited by MN3 on Mar 27, 2018 - 10:46 AM. -
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Posted: Mar 28, 2018 - 12:59 AM
He does and it won't work. He should have a gen/spin pole and make a separate righting pole.
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David
Nacra 5.5SL
Nacra 5.2 (sold)
San Diego, CA
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Posted: Mar 28, 2018 - 08:35 AM
I think there still is confusion here.
His request seems to be a gin pole that is also able to be used as a righting pole.
Not a gen pole or spinnaker pole.
I can’t help on the topic as I don’t use either, but pretty sure he is not asking to take apart his spinnaker setup while boat is capsized and then use that pole as a righting pole.
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Supercat 15
Windrider 17
Several Sunfish and Sunfish clones
Ratboat built from Zuma and Sunfish parts
Shallow water sailor in the Delaware Bay
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Posted: Mar 28, 2018 - 10:48 PM
I have the Murray's righting pole setup with a wind surfer mast for a pole, but it's not long enough to get enough leverage to right a Tornado, (IMHO) so I took it off the boat. If you make it long enough, then it will drag in the water unless it is telescoping and collapsed when not in use.
Since a wind surfer mast is tapered, it does not make an easy project for a telescoping righting pole.
To give you some idea of this problem on the Tornado. - As a test --
We tied my T to the dock so it would not sail away and we were down wind of the dock. I weigh 185 and my crew weight is about 175. The main was down at the time. We both got on the wire in our harnesses and stood straight out almost level with the water. The opposite hull did not even come out of the water much less flip the boat.
So the crew says to me " If we did manage to flip the boat on it's side, the chances of us getting it back upright are about zero to none.
And I had to agree. So I stopped trying and just enjoyed sailing the boat.
Also, I would try to drop the main if possible if the boat did flip. The extra weight up top with a wet main would probably be more of a hindrance than a help unless you had a little wind to get under the main and help you lift the mast.
I used to have a Nacra 5.2 and it would flip back up with some wind, but was harder to flip when the wind was very strong or had quit altogether. The trick was to get the mast facing into the wind and getting enough weight far enough out at right angles to the tramp.
If you watch some of the Tornado films from back in the day, they always use outside help to get a capsized Tornado back upright. I have never seen just 2 people pull this off without more bodies or a chase boat assist.
I also have a telescoping gin pole setup to raise the mast while the boat is still on the trailer, but it is way too heavy to be used for a righting pole. Probably about 45 pounds with the boat winch on it.
Since I am not an engineer, I can't make an educated guess as to how large of an aluminum telescoping tube you would need to right a T, but I would think something close to 12 or 14 feet long would do the trick if both crew were hanging off the end of it. The mast is 32 feet long, so this is not "way out there" but I am just guessing.
You would want to try this on dry land to find out for sure. remove the rudders and centerboards first!
maybe in the snow if you are really bored some day.
Let me know what you find out! -
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Posted: Mar 29, 2018 - 04:16 PM
why not just carry a righting bag? -
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Posted: Mar 30, 2018 - 07:36 PM
Wow just came across this thread, I had the same idea. I am currently solo sailing a Nacra 5.8 and have to lower the mast to put it on a trailer. I made a gin pole and used it for the first time yesterday and lashed it under my tramp in case I capsized. It's heavy as I wanted it to be strong, I'm not so concerned about weight as I am not racing. It's pretty dodgy, it's just a peice of galvanised pipe with a broom head on one end and a carved wooden V slot on the other for holding the winch line, also it's drilled for support lines. I used lots of rubber straps to tie it to the base of the mast and everything went smoothly, I wasn't sure it would work. Now that I know it works I am going to 3d print some nylon fittings for it... and maybe look into a carbon rod/pipe. I still have to research righting poles and fittings for each; righting and gin. I am also looking into righting bags.....
Edited by samson on Mar 31, 2018 - 11:08 AM. -
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Posted: Mar 31, 2018 - 09:00 AM
If you start from the fact that it has to be hinged to the beam, I can see why you think it has to be telescopic. My righting pole is longer than beam to beam distance but i store it under the tramp close to one hull, no problem with its length. -
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Posted: Mar 31, 2018 - 11:34 AM
I will probably use an aluminum tube, about 1.75 or 2 8nch diameter like a cat Trax axle. I would like anodized, but that isn't stocked anywhere will spray it with clear. Probably make a V on one end. The mast twist on the T might make this interesting, but some gin poles can accommodate this.
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John
Nacra 5.0
CT
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Posted: Mar 31, 2018 - 02:54 PM
the heavier the gin pole, not only will it help you right the boat, but it will help you step your mast too
maybe a lead ball on one end?
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Posted: Apr 05, 2018 - 07:02 PM
The way the ARC 21 handles the problem of righting a big boat is with a highfield lever and shroud extenders on both shrouds. After tipping over you release the highfield lever on the shroud of the hull that is flying and then unpin it from the shroud. The shroud is then lengthened by a shroud extender. This allows the flying hull to heel over an gives you an easier righting angle. Once boat is righted you need to get the highfield lever pin back in an retension the shroud. If this would be of interest I could take pictures of the rig and post them.
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Scott
ARC 21
Prindle 18
Annapolis, Maryland
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Posted: Apr 05, 2018 - 09:02 PM
How do you get to the lever on a boat with a 12 foot beam? Climb the hiking straps on the tramp?
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