What knots for a Spintail? :: Catamaran Sailboats at TheBeachcats.com

What knots for a Spintail?

arch

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Registered: Jan 25, 2004

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Posted: Apr 21, 2018 - 01:20 AM

I've been using a Spinnaker 'Spintail' tied into the center of my spinnaker sheet for several years. This allows the spinnaker to change tacks without a big clumsy knot sliding across my forestay and possibly getting hung up.

i'm wondering what knot people use to tie the tail to the SHEET? I don't have any problem tying to the clew of the spinnaker, i use an anchor knot which is the one on the right in this picture.

Any photos of how you tie to the sheet without using a big knot would be helpful. I need something that won't slide along the spinnaker sheet under load.
Thanks!
j

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Aquacat 12 (sold)...'87 Nacra 5.8 (sold)...'03 Nacra Inter18 (sold)
Venture 15 (sold)....'89 Nacra 5.8 (sold)...'91 Nacra 5.8NA (sold)
'99 Nacra Inter20 (sold)
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MN3

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Posted: Apr 21, 2018 - 12:08 PM

why not use a thin HM line (dyneema, vectran) and put it on a large whipping needle and thread it through the spin sheet . cut if off the needle and use both strands to tie off to your clew.

couldn't possibly "slip" or move then
arch

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Posted: Apr 22, 2018 - 08:53 PM

MN3, i'm having difficulty visualizing what you're suggesting. sorry.
do you mean tie the strands to the sheet, not the clew?
a sketch would help....
j

--
Aquacat 12 (sold)...'87 Nacra 5.8 (sold)...'03 Nacra Inter18 (sold)
Venture 15 (sold)....'89 Nacra 5.8 (sold)...'91 Nacra 5.8NA (sold)
'99 Nacra Inter20 (sold)
--
MN3

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Posted: Apr 23, 2018 - 08:11 AM

thread a thin line of dyneema or vectran (1mm or 2mm) on a needle
tie both ends of this line together with a small knot (just like you would any thread and needle)

SEW it through your spin sheet (in the middle of the spin sheet, right where your images shows it currently)

cut the dyneema off the needle - tie the 2 bitter ends of the dyneema together (or don't, doesn't really matter)

Tie the line (both ends of the dyneema) to your spin clew using your knot of choice

since it is now sewn through your spin sheet - it can't possibly slide

Edited by MN3 on Apr 23, 2018 - 08:15 AM.
samc99us

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Posted: Apr 23, 2018 - 09:06 PM

MN3, that makes sense. I would use 2mm dyneema. Arch, does it make sense to you?
One other similar idea is basically to make a soft shackle, and before tying the knot threading the end of the soft shackle through the spinnaker sheet. Then of you have a nice loop to quickly disconnect. Of course the issue with both these methods is you aren't burying the connecting dyneema down into the spinnaker sheet for proper load transfer.

I also haven't had an issue with a bowline. Wrap the forestay in electrical tape to prevent snags.

Another option would be a dog bone: https://geauxfastsailing.com/shop/dogbone-10/

The skiff guys make them up custom in smaller sizes...I might do the same, but as I mentioned above, bowlines work fine.
MN3

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Posted: Apr 24, 2018 - 05:03 AM

I do have total faith in Sam's experience/advice

BUT... I'd be (slightly) concerned the friction of passing over the forestay (jib) could snag and "undo" a softshackle

and bowlines "supposedly" are not the correct knot for lines/sheets that cycle through load / unload - although i can't recall ever having one untie on me ... just food for thought
samc99us

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Posted: Apr 24, 2018 - 03:49 PM

MN3,

I just had the same thought, a big loop is easy to snare. That is the same concern I would have with your knot.

I've always used a bowline there without issue, the key is a sufficient tail. I've sailed thousands of miles on a bowline tied to a sheet so I really don't think they will come undone.

Another thought, you can splice a loop in the end of the dyneema, then pass this through the clew, then pass the whole sheet through the clew of the sail. Downside to this is its difficult to untie the sheet from the sail in a jiffy.
samc99us

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Posted: Apr 24, 2018 - 03:56 PM

Ohh, I'm also realizing the O.P is asking how to get that thin piece of dyneema onto the sheet line itself. There are a few different options:

1) I prefer a cored line that you can pull the dyneema core out of and do a proper splice into with the tail of the 12" or so dyneema attachment line. This won't slip.

2) If that isn't an option, i.e its singlebraid sheet, I take the piece of dyneema that you are attaching to the sail and lock splice another piece of the same dyneema into it so you have a y tail (like a mainsheet traveler). Then I bury each end of this tail into the middle of the spinnaker sheet. I use 3mm dyneema for the sheet attachment and 8mm line for the sheet itself, as such I like to bury the dyneema tails at least 12" into the sheet.
nacra55

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Posted: Apr 24, 2018 - 05:19 PM

This kinda looks like what was being talked about.
https://youtu.be/lOJtQw5dXrA

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Ron
Nacra F18
Reservoir Sailing Assn.
Brandon, Mississippi
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MN3

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Posted: Apr 24, 2018 - 06:03 PM

nacra55This kinda looks like what was being talked about.
https://youtu.be/lOJtQw5dXrA

Great vid
i LOVE the next video too - Joining a single braid Dyneema rope with double braid polyester