Daggerboard is cracked out! :: Catamaran Sailboats at TheBeachcats.com

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Daggerboard is cracked out!

chipman

Rank: Lubber

Registered: May 31, 2017

Last visit: Jun 02, 2018

Posts: 8
Posted: May 28, 2018 - 01:55 PM

Hi Folks!

Getting my cat ready for the season and I came across my daggerboard issue from last year. It's cracked and dinged up pretty well. Looking for some advice on how to repair. My first inclination was to just use epoxy, but the tip is rather flimsy at this time. Best course of action to sand that puppy down and give it some fiberglass love? Trying to avoid buying new daggerboards for now, but, so be it if this one is a lost cause.

The previous owner tried to repair with epoxy I believe, and it did not hold up. I'm not 100% on the construction, but there is a hollow space. My plan would be to sand down the entire bottom, feather out the cracks a little, healthy dose of DNA, apply small pieces of epoxy wet fiberglass to fill in the cracks, and then one big ol wrap of fiberglass around the whole thing. fill in low spots, gel coat, and voila, good as new!

Would I be making this too complicated? Very open to suggestions and advice on how to repair.

Thanks everyone!
gahamby

Rank: Mate

Registered: Feb 05, 2011

Last visit: Jun 15, 2021

Posts: 575
Posted: May 28, 2018 - 03:16 PM

Hi, what kind of cat? That is one ate up board. There's a fair amount of materials and a hell of a lot of sanding involved here. When you're all done the board can't be any fatter. Inject a bunch of epoxy into all the cavities.Firm up all that loose stuff. Then you can sand down and re glass to original dimensions. While the resin is curing shop around for another board. That one should become your throw down spare. GH

--
'82 Super Cat 15
Hull #315
Virginia
Previously owned: '70 H14, '79 H16, '68 Sailmaster 26, '85 H14T
--
chipman

Rank: Lubber

Registered: May 31, 2017

Last visit: Jun 02, 2018

Posts: 8
Posted: May 28, 2018 - 04:30 PM

Thanks for the input GH. It's a Sol Cat 18. hard to come by parts, hopefully Pete in Big Bear has something for me.

Yeah filling all the cavities will be a lot of material. I like that idea though. Will make it heavier but stronger sounds like. Looks like there is aluminum in there too, under the fiberglass. Will be an experience that's sure.
gahamby

Rank: Mate

Registered: Feb 05, 2011

Last visit: Jun 15, 2021

Posts: 575
Posted: May 28, 2018 - 05:10 PM

I don't know your location. Here on the Middle Atlantic coast. Dan Berger seems to be the used parts guy.
He's on this forum.
Rumor has it NACRA boards might fit.
Nacrasailing on this forum sells parts.

Edited by gahamby on May 28, 2018 - 06:32 PM.

--
'82 Super Cat 15
Hull #315
Virginia
Previously owned: '70 H14, '79 H16, '68 Sailmaster 26, '85 H14T
--
gahamby

Rank: Mate

Registered: Feb 05, 2011

Last visit: Jun 15, 2021

Posts: 575
Posted: May 28, 2018 - 05:40 PM

You can soften up all that putty with a heat gun (variable temp recommended). It will flow sooner than the resin in the glass. Be real careful with this method!

--
'82 Super Cat 15
Hull #315
Virginia
Previously owned: '70 H14, '79 H16, '68 Sailmaster 26, '85 H14T
--
samc99us

Rank: Mate

Registered: Apr 15, 2005

Last visit: Feb 21, 2024

Posts: 574
Posted: May 28, 2018 - 05:42 PM

Which Nacra boards might fit? The older ones are hard to come buy and you could buy a replacement 18' cat for what a new pair of boards cost (starting at $500 each).

Fortunately the O.P is in pretty good shape; the boards while cracked see low loads at that location. I would use a quality epoxy-west systems plus an adhesive filler (the 404 is good stuff), inject into crack, tape and let dry. Then I would sand down over the cracked area and add 3 layers or so of 9oz glass aside. 6oz would probably work too. In a pinch, if it will still fit, a single wrap of glass would work without any sanding. Likely it will still go in the trunk OKAY.

If doing a proper repair, I would lay 2 of the glass layers on the 45 degree bias (so the fibers are oriented 45 degrees to the part) and the inner layer at 0-90 to get some strength across the repair. Of course I would use uni carbon for that but alas. Apply a layer of peel ply and let cure. Fair smooth and shoot krylon.
gahamby

Rank: Mate

Registered: Feb 05, 2011

Last visit: Jun 15, 2021

Posts: 575
Posted: May 28, 2018 - 07:44 PM

the rumor was on catsailor about using F18 daggers seems unfounded
https://www.ebay.com/itm/…53D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
I don't know if these sold or not, It's a lead

--
'82 Super Cat 15
Hull #315
Virginia
Previously owned: '70 H14, '79 H16, '68 Sailmaster 26, '85 H14T
--
dmgbear55

Rank: Mate

Registered: Jun 22, 2015

Last visit: Jul 06, 2018

Posts: 258
Posted: May 28, 2018 - 11:52 PM

Epoxy is just part of this repair equation. You need some fiberglass to actually hold this all together. The core is the core and is only a small part of the strength, most of which is in the skin. So the repair is to grind back the old skin using the 12 to 1 grind ratio and then laminate some new glass onto the core. Epoxy is the best resin simply because it bonds so well to the old polyester resin used originally. Vacuum bagging is nice, but not required, but at least a couple of layers of bi-axial should do the trick on each side. You can work one side at a time and then flip the board. I repaired an original 5.2 board and use it now as a spare, but it seems to be plenty strong enough to take regular use. The repair on the end of your board would be easy and because it is at the end of the board pretty lightly loaded, so even a less than careful repair would hold up. Just make sure to duplicate the section thickness of the original layup and you will have as much or more strength as the original.

--
dg
NACRA 5.2 #400
This End Up
Original owner since 1975
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ohmsj

Rank: Mate

Registered: May 07, 2004

Last visit: Nov 14, 2019

Posts: 141
Posted: May 29, 2018 - 12:03 PM

Chipman

I have a new pair of dagger boards left over from my Solcat 18 they have a few scratches from moving around in the sail box but are new never been in the water. Send me a PM and I will send you a few photos

--
Jeff O
N5.0
solcat 18(sold),
N5.2,
H16
Camarillo CA
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Dogboy

Rank: Mate

Registered: Mar 19, 2004

Last visit: Nov 21, 2024

Posts: 964
Posted: May 29, 2018 - 12:33 PM

I agree, it needs to be glassed back together. The only thing I would add though is that before grinding and glassing, I would try to glue it back into it's original shape as best as possible. That would likely involve injecting some epoxy under the surface of the cracked glass and into any cracks or voids in the foam. Clamping might even involve drilling through the board and temporarily thru-bolting with some large washers to pull everything back into position. After the board is back to it's original shape, grind back the cracked glass as described by dmgbear and then re-glass, fair, and paint.

sm
chipman

Rank: Lubber

Registered: May 31, 2017

Last visit: Jun 02, 2018

Posts: 8
Posted: May 31, 2018 - 10:43 PM

So, I opted for replacement. Pete in Big Bear had a pair kickin around, seemed like a pretty fair price. Also, he HAD them which was a definite win.

That being said, I did work on this one a little. Only having a little MarineTex to work with, I opened up the cracks a bit by cutting off the cracked up parts. After some serious cleaning out, I gave it a good dose of the MarineTex, working it into the cavities as much as possible. A few days later, it's quite hard and rigidity is restored. Is it pretty? Heck no. Will it hold? Probably yes. I think I'll try to patch up both of the older daggerboards with the methods you all have suggested above. Injecting epoxy and then glassing around it. As I have a Sunfish with a damaged keel (that's a whole other barrel of resin), the glass projects may happen this Fall.

Thanks again everyone for your suggestions!
gahamby

Rank: Mate

Registered: Feb 05, 2011

Last visit: Jun 15, 2021

Posts: 575
Posted: Jun 01, 2018 - 06:16 PM

Glad it worked out. Great stuff that Marine Tex, a bit pricey though. I redid my rudder tips with some. I have bumped over many shoals since. The stuff held up fine.

--
'82 Super Cat 15
Hull #315
Virginia
Previously owned: '70 H14, '79 H16, '68 Sailmaster 26, '85 H14T
--
chipman

Rank: Lubber

Registered: May 31, 2017

Last visit: Jun 02, 2018

Posts: 8
Posted: Jun 01, 2018 - 11:28 PM

That's good to hear. My main concern is the tip of it getting broken off, but, as someone mentioned earlier there really isn't much stress on that part of the dagger. If i slid sideways into something i bet it would snap but that doesn't seem likely.

My first time working with it. Seemed like mixing on cardboard was just messy. A plastic container could work much better and none of the hardener would get soaked up. Overall easy to work with though. Would have liked it a bit thicker.
DanBerger

Rank: Mate

Registered: Oct 02, 2002

Last visit: Aug 13, 2020

Posts: 214
Posted: Jun 07, 2018 - 12:35 PM

I keep hearing my name tossed around!? I'm glad you got a good deal on the new boards, I do have a pair and pretty much an entire Solcat 18 parted out.

So, although that is a very ugly fix, it isn't that bad--as long as the piece is still on, you just have to epoxy it back together but don't skip on the glass!! I would grind out 2 inches from the crack, and even grind inside the crack to get the surface clean. You should open up the crack and have some space between the two edges.
Then, put the board in a jig so that it will hold in it's final shape and I would use thickened epoxy to fill in the crack gap and lay a layer of glass over the gap. Work epoxy into the glass from above and let it cure. repeat for the other side. This should make the board pretty stiff and you can work with it without changing the shape. Next, sand down the glass layer and using unthickened epoxy, add at least two more layers of glass to fill in the part you ground off around the crack. That will address the crack.

On the bottoms, I have had a lot of success grinding away at the sides about an inch up all the way around. Use thickened epoxy--By that, I mean add that ground up brown filler West Sells. Make it thick, peanut butter viscosity is too much. smear the thickened epoxy on the bottom of the rudder and use packing tape to kind of give it a shape. also, work it into the cracks on the bottom and tips. I do that for each side and I build it out a bit too much so I can grind it back to it's expected shape.

The real trick is to thoroughly clean the old glass--it looks like the previous repairer did not do that so the epoxy failed to adhere. Don't be stingy on using Acetone to clean up the area, too.

To finish the board, you should sand the entire thing with 100 grit to roughen it up some, then you an roll on Gel coat and sand it smooth with varying grits until you get to like 2000 grit.

Or-- since working with gel coat in that manner is pure madness, I would spray it with white appliance epoxy--hit is with several coats and pay attention to the cure time on it. You have like 20 minutes between coats or you have to wait a week to apply another coat. You will have to wait a week before you can sand the paint to get out imperfections.

Hope this helps.