Synthetic standing rigging anyone?

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gobigkahuna

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Posted: Aug 30, 2018 - 09:06 PM

Anyone here replace the standing rigging on their boat with synthetic rope? I got a couple quotes to make up some replacement shrouds and I estimate I can splice up some dyneema for less than half the cost. Would love some feedback from anyone else who's done this to their cat.
jalex

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Posted: Aug 30, 2018 - 09:46 PM

It’s an option but I wouldn’t do it to save money. Hard to beat measured and assembled wires ready to go for a few hundred dollars a set. I still think stainless is the best abrasion resistant, low elasticity, uv resistant high strength material for your dollar. There may be some other reasons to try it, that stuff is magical, just not sure it’s a big dollar saver
gobigkahuna

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Posted: Aug 31, 2018 - 05:44 AM

I got a quote of $200 to replace a single shroud, which got me thinking about alternative solutions. Another option that I complete forgot about is to use nicro-press sleeves and stainless thimbles. I've never used them for standing rigging before, but on a boat this size it might just be the answer.
jalex

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Posted: Aug 31, 2018 - 07:24 AM

What type of boat? $200 a shroud sounds very high
gobigkahuna

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Posted: Aug 31, 2018 - 07:46 AM

jalexWhat type of boat? $200 a shroud sounds very high

A 20-ish foot custom beach cat. Has 4 shrouds and a fore stay that are roughly 25 feet long. Yeah, I thought it was stupid expensive, but only one sailboat rigger in the area with a swaging machine.
MN3

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Posted: Aug 31, 2018 - 08:06 AM

gobigkahuna
jalexWhat type of boat? $200 a shroud sounds very high

A 20-ish foot custom beach cat. Has 4 shrouds and a fore stay that are roughly 25 feet long. Yeah, I thought it was stupid expensive, but only one sailboat rigger in the area with a swaging machine.

Impressive: all of the catamaran's i have seen/sailed only have 3
2 sidestays and 1 forestay.

QuoteAnyone here replace the standing rigging on their boat with synthetic rope?

I sail on a trimeran (f31) that has all dynema rigging. they use dynema dux from colligo - http://www.colligomarine.…m/colligo-dux-lifelines/

this product is heated and stretched to almost eliminate creep and stretch (it is about the same as wire)

Edited by MN3 on Aug 31, 2018 - 09:28 AM.
jalex

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Posted: Aug 31, 2018 - 08:35 AM

Quote
A 20-ish foot custom beach cat. Has 4 shrouds and a fore stay that are roughly 25 feet long. Yeah, I thought it was stupid expensive, but only one sailboat rigger in the area with a swaging machine

While I like to spend my money local, don't limit yourself to the only guy with a swaging machine. I ordered custom size rigging from Salty Dog Marine and it fit perfect. Just know your measurement from thimble eye to thimble eye(or swage eye).

Would interested to see some pics of your rig, never seen a double shrouded beach cat
klozhald

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Posted: Aug 31, 2018 - 02:09 PM

JalexI ordered custom size rigging from Salty Dog Marine and it fit perfect.

I had Salty Dog do my rigging as well - double swages on all ends.
Exactly as I ordered.

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Sheet In!
Bob
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Prindle 18-2 #244 "Wakizashi"
Prindle 16 #3690 "Pegasus" Sold (sigh)
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JohnES

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Posted: Aug 31, 2018 - 05:02 PM

gobigkahunaI got a quote of $200 to replace a single shroud, which got me thinking about alternative solutions. Another option that I complete forgot about is to use nicro-press sleeves and stainless thimbles. I've never used them for standing rigging before, but on a boat this size it might just be the answer.

Murray's Marine/Sport can build custom rigging and for an inexpensive price... the good thing the next time you need it, they already have it "speced" out.. To be 100% accurate you should send what you want to replicated to Joel @ Murrays, but he can work from measurements too...

Here are some hints on how to measure...

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bradinjax

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Posted: Sep 01, 2018 - 05:10 PM

The reason most people go to synthetic is to reduce weight aloft and usually the reason to do that is to get that last .01% edge in competition. Also, synthetic makes it easier to tension or un-tension the rig on the fly for changing conditions. Again, trying to squeeze the last .01% of performance out of the boat.

I have ordered several full sets of standing rigging in SS from both Salty Dog and Murrays, 100% satisfied with both. Just give them good measurements.

Just curious, why the 4 side stays?

Thanks,

Brad in Jax
H16 sold
H18 sold
H18 sold for parts
G Cat 5.7 sold
Stiletto 27 needs work
MN3

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Posted: Sep 02, 2018 - 10:51 AM

bradinjaxThe reason most people go to synthetic is to reduce weight aloft and usually the reason to do that is to get that last .01% edge in competition. Also, synthetic makes it easier to tension or un-tension the rig on the fly for changing conditions. Again, trying to squeeze the last .01% of performance out of the boat.

it can be argued that hm rigging is safer than ss because chafe, uv damage and fuzz are easy to spot and signs of wear and alert that it is time for attention

ss can have internal cracks, imperfections and corrosion that will never be seen until it separates (eg. inside a nicopress sleeve or airplane fitting, or hidden by wire on the thimble) - or an incorrectly performed job on the rigging. rare from a creditable place but happens
gobigkahuna

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Posted: Sep 02, 2018 - 12:29 PM

Quoteit can be argued that hm rigging is safer than ss because chafe, uv damage and fuzz are easy to spot and signs of wear and alert that it is time for attention...

Here's a perfect example of what you're talking about. Note the swaged fitting on the left (red arrow). The rigging on this boat shows absolutely no signs of rust or wear of any kind, yet the stainless steel 1x19 wire that was swaged to this eye broke while the boat was in its slip. Lucky it didn't happen while sailing otherwise the entire rig might have been lost.
cholley12

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Posted: Sep 08, 2018 - 01:31 PM

Im actually working with john at coligo marine to try out some new fittings that will eliminate the normal pin fittings on the boat. Should be an interesting project. We are even doijg synthetic forestay with a roller furler

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Captain Chris Holley
Fulshear, TX
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cholley12

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Posted: Sep 16, 2018 - 03:15 AM

Update on my synthetic rigging, I should have the first prototype stuff at my house by the end of the month, then its on to tinkering.

--
Captain Chris Holley
Fulshear, TX
'87 Prindle 19 "¡Hijole!"
'74 sunfish "1fish"
--
bacho

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Posted: Sep 16, 2018 - 09:39 AM

I have synthetic on my A-cats. Its lighter and often makes the difference between min weight and not it seems. However its kind of a pain to keep tensioned properly. Its certainly not as industructible. Its also harder to deal with when rigging and de rigging. Is it worthwhile? I am not so sure. I certainly would not be using it on a boat stored mast up or any application that would require it exposed to UV for more than a weekend. I would not use it on my F18 either.

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MN3

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Posted: Sep 16, 2018 - 01:15 PM

Quote have synthetic on my A-cats. Its lighter and often makes the difference between min weight and not it seems. However its kind of a pain to keep tensioned properly. I

how do you measure tension?
how do you adjust tension?
do use a "termination/fitting" or lashing block?

Edited by MN3 on Sep 16, 2018 - 01:15 PM.
martin_langhoff

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Posted: Sep 17, 2018 - 10:25 AM

I now have a UFO, with dyneema shrouds. Spinlock rigsense works well to reproduce a known tension. No idea whether the reading is correct in absolute terms. I aim for 85Kg with the sail tensioned, but is it truly 85Kg?
MN3

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Posted: Sep 17, 2018 - 11:00 AM

martin_langhoffI now have a UFO, with dyneema shrouds. Spinlock rigsense works well to reproduce a known tension. No idea whether the reading is correct in absolute terms. I aim for 85Kg with the sail tensioned, but is it truly 85Kg?

Thanks Martin
samc99us

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Posted: Sep 17, 2018 - 05:01 PM

I may disagree with Bacho a tad bit here. Using the dyneema, at a minimum heat treated SK78, but better is heat treated SK99 (super pre-stretched are usual marketing terms) and you have a product that is better than steel in terms of creep and elongation. The real issue is the termination needs to set initially and compensating for that isn't trivial. The other issue is measuring the tension.

In terms of U.V exposure, I have zero issue leaving a rig up with dyneema rigging in the sun. Is it great in the tropics? No, but in the mid latitudes you probably have 4-5 years before that becomes a real issue. Chafe will likely get you first, I run decent chafe protection at the top in particular.

I run 2.5mm dyneema trap lines on the F18 and have had 3+ years out of a set left mast up April-November. I generally sell the boat before they are a problem, and again chafe is the #1 enemy, not U.V.
mikekrantz

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Posted: Sep 18, 2018 - 11:27 AM

I just load tested a set of my heat treated SK99 shrouds that have been outside under tension for 3 years. They are 2.5mm rated at 1200kg/2,645 lbs - (BTW 1/8 wire 1x19 is rated at 1,800 lbs).

Anyway, after 3 years hard use, left in the sun, stepping/unstepping the mast many times, traveled with, raced, etc. - they broke at a little over 2,400 lbs. And they broke in an area that been chafed quite often by the mainsheet. i typically have to re-coat the lower couple of feet with maxi-jacket once a year. When in light air, and i'm trapping really forward, the mainsheet is sometimes rubbing the lower part of the shroud when trimming.