Reefing with a beach at sale :: Catamaran Sailboats at TheBeachcats.com

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Reefing with a beach at sale

emmettv

Rank: Lubber

Registered: Jun 30, 2012

Last visit: Jul 29, 2024

Posts: 61
Posted: Nov 05, 2018 - 06:03 PM

There have been times when deciding if to go out in heavier winds . Does anyone reef the mainsail of their beachcat? What mods to sail are required to do so ?
MN3

Rank: Master Chief

Registered: Jun 20, 2006

Last visit: May 22, 2024

Posts: 7089
Posted: Nov 05, 2018 - 08:39 PM

yes , most "distance race" boats can reef or reduce sail area via their sail hatch (smaller sails)
some beach catamaraners have high winds sails for the days you really wanna sail but it's blowin like stink

I have a reefable main on my 6.0
and i have smaller sails for my 5.5 ... they are interchangeable
this is my 6.0 with 5.5 main/jib last week. it was blowing 15-28 knots (i am also raked well forward to depower)
It sailed very well and manageable in 20+ (solo)

if i had my 6.0 main/jib i could furl the jib/reef the main via a few reef grommets in the sail and a line

what mods...
way to secure the head of the main (in the track and lower)
way to re attach your downhaul, outhaul and clew
way to reef the main

my solution (the guy who i purchased if from who did all the mods):
I have a spin lock on my mast that the main halyard runs through so I can take it off my hook, and re lock it from the bottom
I have a re enforced grommet (x2) for the down/out-haul
i have reef points in the main (reenforced grommets) and a few webbing stropes to attach a very light line to furl up the bottom of my 6/0 sail (tie up the reefed main)

Edited by MN3 on Nov 05, 2018 - 08:40 PM.
ziper1221

Rank: Lubber

Registered: Dec 25, 2015

Last visit: Jul 26, 2022

Posts: 42
Posted: Nov 05, 2018 - 10:19 PM

Quoteraked well forward to depower

Never heard this... please elaborate. Always heard forward in light air, back in heavy.
Dogboy

Rank: Mate

Registered: Mar 19, 2004

Last visit: Nov 21, 2024

Posts: 964
Posted: Nov 06, 2018 - 05:39 AM

Raked forward to depower? Yea, that certainly runs contrary to the conventional wisdom of raking back to depower. Maybe he needs to do this to balance the helm with the smaller sail. Sure doesn’t look right to me....

Anyway, the biggest issue with reefing is coming up with a way to engage the main halyard into it’s hook mechanism at the lower hoist height. You could just tie or cleat off the halyard at the lower point, but then halyard stretch could become an issue and you may not be able to get enough luff tension on your mainsail to flatten it out.

If you have the option of adding a furler to your jib, that is also a convenient and proven method of reducing sail area.

sm
Edchris177

Rank: Chief

Registered: Nov 26, 2009

Last visit: Aug 10, 2024

Posts: 2531
Posted: Nov 06, 2018 - 07:18 AM

Dogboy
If you have the option of adding a furler to your jib, that is also a convenient and proven method of reducing sail area.

+1
A couple seasons ago we crossed the lake, (37 miles), solo on each Nacra, during a decent blow. It was getting pretty hairy, with the wind at 28mph, ( as shown on the mid lake weather buoy) for the return trip.
We furled the jibs & did the return crossing on a very fast broad reach, I passed the Police boat. I was sailing the 5.7 metre boat, (19’), & it demanded full attention, but it was not survival mode, as would be the case under full sail.
This particular boat does not tack as well under main only, but you can back down after blowing the tack. Solo, on an 18-20’ boat, it’s more about not going swimming than how quickly you come about.
Now that I’m a Senior, I bought a Dart 15 for big wind days. It can be soloed in over 30 mph,(in England they go til it hits 40+) with one, or both sails up, though I tend to sail under main only when it’s 30mph. If (when) I do go swimming it’s not much harder to right than a Hobie Wave.

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--
texastuma

Rank: Mate

Registered: Nov 22, 2012

Last visit: Nov 20, 2024

Posts: 410
Posted: Nov 06, 2018 - 03:21 PM

I have a cut down Tornado main, which I made a square top. On my P-19, it became a great heavy air main as it was about 2' short. It happens to fit the 18-2 perfectly. For the cost of doing proper modifications to a mainsail, one can just buy a smaller main; P-16 or P-18 for example. Put the wear and tear on these sails and leave the good one for lighter breeze.

--
Scott

Prindle Fleet 2
TCDYC

Prindle 18-2 Mod "FrankenKitty"
Tornado Classic "Fast Furniture"
Prindle 19 "Mr. Wiggly"
Nacra 5.8 "De ja vu"
Nacra 5.0
Nacra 5.8
Tornadoes (Reg White)
--
randii

Rank: Mate

Registered: May 08, 2017

Last visit: Oct 29, 2019

Posts: 139
Posted: Nov 06, 2018 - 03:54 PM

Edchris177I passed the Police boat.

I love it!

Randii
yelkenli1

Rank: Mate

Registered: May 31, 2011

Last visit: Dec 17, 2023

Posts: 126
Posted: Nov 06, 2018 - 05:58 PM

A cut-down main with matching halyard would be a clean solution (except for the extra $$s). The Jib could probably stay (older Hobies have a reefing main).

Do any of the sail lofts have experience with smaller sails? How to cut them, what percent reduction in sail area, etc? and any knowledge on how that would impact the balance of the boat, and controls such as down-haul and out-haul?

I question raking forward also - would like to hear more on that argument.

--
Ted
Hobie 16
South Carolina Lake sailing
--
MN3

Rank: Master Chief

Registered: Jun 20, 2006

Last visit: May 22, 2024

Posts: 7089
Posted: Nov 06, 2018 - 07:38 PM

QuoteRaked forward to depower? Yea, that certainly runs contrary to the conventional wisdom of raking back to depower. Maybe he needs to do this to balance the helm with the smaller sail. Sure doesn’t look right to me....

Thanks for keeping me honest
i meant raked forward due to smaller sailplan (not wrestling with the tiller in 25 is a good thing)

that picture is misleading ... the horizon on the water is sloped

Here is a true version of my rake

Edited by MN3 on Nov 06, 2018 - 07:46 PM.
MN3

Rank: Master Chief

Registered: Jun 20, 2006

Last visit: May 22, 2024

Posts: 7089
Posted: Nov 06, 2018 - 08:40 PM

Quotethe biggest issue with reefing is coming up with a way to engage the main halyard into it’s hook mechanism at the lower hoist height. You could just tie or cleat off the halyard at the lower point, but then halyard stretch could become an issue and you may not be able to get enough luff tension on your mainsail to flatten it out.

I use robline racing sheet as my halyard - it has dyneema core .. very little stretch

one other thing to consider with cleating somehow at the base of the mast
when it's on a hook at the head of the mast (or a bead/fork) the downhaul is a 1:1
when it runs up the mast, over a sheeve and back down... secured at the base the downhaul is now a 2:1 flexing your entire mast
better make sure your mast and attachments can handle that

Edited by MN3 on Nov 06, 2018 - 08:41 PM.
Dogboy

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Registered: Mar 19, 2004

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Posts: 964
Posted: Nov 07, 2018 - 09:13 AM

If that's what it takes to balance the helm, I think I'd rather run the full sail plan with the mast raked back where it should be than use a smaller sail with the mast raked forward like that. Looks totally out of whack to me. I've never seen any cat rigged with the mast raked forward of plumb.

Maybe pulling the centerboards up partially will help move the CLR aft and allow the mast to be raked back where it should be. Or rake the rudders forward slightly.

sm
MN3

Rank: Master Chief

Registered: Jun 20, 2006

Last visit: May 22, 2024

Posts: 7089
Posted: Nov 07, 2018 - 07:10 PM

DogboyIf that's what it takes to balance the helm, I think I'd rather run the full sail plan with the mast raked back where it should be than use a smaller sail with the mast raked forward like that. Looks totally out of whack to me. I've never seen any cat rigged with the mast raked forward of plumb.

Maybe pulling the centerboards up partially will help move the CLR aft and allow the mast to be raked back where it should be. Or rake the rudders forward slightly.

sm

you are probably correct - to be honest i didn't realize it was raked this far forward until i saw this pic - and i did swap out shroud adjusters early this season with a different type adjuster - a little difference can make for a big adjustment 31' aloft

i will experiment in some lighter air

however,
my 5.5 should be back on the water soon so the 6.0 will go away for a while (or a year or so)

Edited by MN3 on Nov 07, 2018 - 07:13 PM.
mattson

Rank: Online Pioneer

Registered: Apr 23, 2002

Last visit: Feb 18, 2022

Posts: 211
Posted: Nov 08, 2018 - 12:31 PM

I put a bit of effort into configuring my H18 for reefing if needed on trips to the Channel Islands. It's unique to the H18, as you need the "flapper" on the mast hook that most people remove from the H18 or that is not installed on other boats.

Back when I designed it, the common system in my area involved lowering the main, installing a length of cable between the main head and the ring, then re-hoisting the main, leaving the length of cable between the mast head and main head.

Using a quick release shackle, and a couple of lines, I designed a system where the main could be reefed with the cable without lowering the main. I also had a pre-rigged line on the tack where I could rig the boom without having to lift it into position. The concept assumed trying to reef the main, at sea, in heavy air and big waves. It had to be dependable, and relatively easy and quick.

Some annotated photos are at the link below. There are some updates noted that are not in the photos which just involve the position of one shackle. But the system remained the same. It looks complicated, but it worked pretty well.

http://www.catsail.com/projects/reef/

Edited by mattson on Nov 08, 2018 - 12:40 PM.

--
Bill Mattson
Prindle 19 "Gelli Bean"
Prindle 19 "Cat's Pajamas"
Nacra 5.2 (Will sail her a bit and let her name herself)
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