F18
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- Rank: Mate
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Posted: Mar 22, 2019 - 05:35 PM
Note: If you're bringing in the beaters of the group, might want to plan for a bit more on the water support boats...haha!
We even have a few folks that put away their "race boats" and instead race around on Hobie Waves. It's great fun. Participation is key, and making it less about placement and bragging rights and more about the fun.
Have a 1st-3rd place, but I would like to see a "Best wipeout", "Middleman", whatever else you can think of, because what we (and many others) found is that the clubs almost inevitably fracture into one of two groups. Racers and Cruisers. They each need the other is the funny part, so give the racers what they want, a chance to win bragging rights, and give the cruisers what they want, a good time. Make it fun for the entire family (including those not on the water) and I believe that's a recipe for success, but then again as I said, I am an optimist.
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Joshua
Texas Gulf Coast
'82 Prindle 16 (Badfish)
'02 Hobie Wave (Unnamed Project)
‘87 Hobie 18 (Sold)
‘89 Hobie 17 (ill-advised project boat, Sold)
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Posted: Mar 23, 2019 - 02:08 PM
Fortunately the F18 isn't a dead boat society thanks to the support of Nacra and Goodall in the states! Hobie had a good thing going with the Tiger in the late 90's and early 2000's which helped kick start things as well. These are all still great boats and early Infusion and C2's are still competitive when fitted with new sails and good foils. Mike and Tripp came in 2nd at the Worlds on a 2013 Goodall C2; I spent 2 summers competitively racing a Infusion Mk. 1, finished 2nd at the Statue of Liberty Race on the boat, spent time in the top 15 at Catacup and more recently beat a number of competitive sailors in a 35 mile distance race on that same boat. If you can find one in good shape I would not hesitate to race either of these boats in a local fleet or at the Nationals level.
What is hurting F18 sailing in the U.S is time, lack of crew and to some extent the price of new sails. They are pretty expensive and tough for most to keep up with given the rising cost of living...having a partner in the boat helps with both problems. I myself am short a driver for the season in the Annapolis/NE area. Others up north have similar problems. So if you have a little bit of experience and are looking to go faster reach out to the class and we'll get you a ride!!
Edited by samc99us on Mar 23, 2019 - 02:09 PM. -
- Rank: Lubber
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- Posts: 64
Posted: Mar 24, 2019 - 02:17 AM
I'm a relatively new F18 owner, and I think that more used boats means the prices will entice more people to get one. Down here in the desert, most folks opt for H16's 'cause you can pick one up off Craigslist for $500-$1000. There are a few I20's, but I see a couple of H16 skippers eyeing the F18 as a possible upgrade. I've had a couple out to sail on mine, and flying the spin made for some big grins. I know I got hooked on it the first time out.
At first, I worried that there would be a move toward foilers, but I don't think the cost is attractive enough yet. There are some Tigers and Mk1's for sale that would be perfectly fine on the little lakes we have here. Our races are a mix of many different boats, from I20's down to a wave. From what I'm seeing in this thread, that's the case in other places too. I will say, it would be nice to have a few more F18's here; we could have our own "fleet".
The other competition for sailing dollars would probably be F16's. I don't know why there aren't any around. One of the things folks like about the H16 is that they can single-hand it, and move it around on the beach easily. Finding crew can be a pain. That actually helped steer me towards an F18. I couldn't find an F16 anywhere close, and I figured that if I were going to buy a two-person boat, it ought to be something fast enough to interest people looking to crew.
Brett
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Brett
2012 Goodall C2 with 2014 Hulls (warranty)
1992 Hobie 18 w/ SX Wings (Sold)
Tucson, AZ
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Posted: Mar 24, 2019 - 09:55 AM
It is unfortunate that there are not more F16s around with more "affordable" prices. The class is a great platform and the Blades I own are a testament to Matt and his crew at now Falcon Marine. I would recommend them to everyone as they check off a lot of boxes.
That said, two points ... one, who cares what you have? From the oldest H14 to the newest F18, bring it out and sail. Hopefully there are race committees out there that feel the same way so folks can do the racing side as well. You may have folks that only come out once per year but if there is a lot of those, cat sailing will continue.
Two, own more than one boat. I was lucky to buy my Tiger for a good price. It has been for sale on this site for a good price for a long time with no takers. I doubt I will now sell the Tiger and I have the best of both worlds for me. F16 for 1 up and Tiger for when the wind picks up and 2 up is required.
In the end, it isn't the manufacturers that keep this sport alive, it is the sailors that do. Take that friend for a ride and make the love of sailing contagious.
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dk
Blade F-16
Hobie 14
Corsair F-242
Mirage 25 (Sold)
Hobie Tiger (Sold)
Hobie Tiger (Sold)
TomCat 6.2 (Sold)
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Posted: Mar 25, 2019 - 03:50 PM
The F16 does tick off a lot of boxes but for me doesn't cut it on the racing front as its hard to get a fleet together. If someone is interested, there is a very good condition Viper for sale at my club for under $8k. No real serious takers that I am aware of...
I agree that for all club/weekend events bring em' all out to play. We cannot afford to be exclusive in this day and age.
Re: the move to foilers: The price point isn't there yet (fortunately) and I personally not a fan of most 2 man foiling solutions (the Whisper is probably the exception). They are too aggressive for those that only sail occasional weekends and in racing scenarios can be dangerous. I know about 5 non AC helms I would trust to drive a 2 person foiler in the U.S with me crewing, but I also don't like swimming too much!! I think what will help the F18 class grow some is the convertible boats may have some folks buying F18's that otherwise would have gone with a pure foiler, and hopefully they'll come race with the class :) -
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Posted: Mar 26, 2019 - 09:48 AM
Very good conversations... I agree that it is the sailors that build the fleet, not the manufacturers or dealers. If we rely on the dealer to support the class, their support will disappear as soon as the next model comes out. These events/races need to have a big social aspect as well as the racing part. Not a lot of people race with their spouse, so.... usually a spouse and/or kids are left at the beach while the other is on the water. We used to have a huge gathering of people at the Dike while we were out racing. I think they hosted their own beach party while we raced. Which is fantastic. Each group needs that person (or people) who jumps in and starts organizing things. That is how these things stay alive. I remember when we made the decision to shut down MSA. There was only a couple that was running things and they got burned out. When you see a class or fleet build and thrive, it is usually from one or two people who are "pushing the rope". Or, when you see a fleet die out, it is from when the driving force leaves. It definitely follows the theory that 20% do 80% of the work. We spent decades doing this for the multihull fleet in Galveston Bay. Making calls each week to make deals on getting people out on the water. It wears people out. But, if the event is enjoyable for everyone, many people are willing to help out. There is a big social aspect of these boats. Hang on the beach, go sailing, chat with friends, repeat... There is a big increase of people buying the $500 - $1,500 catamaran and using what they have. I am in full support in that. If you have a P-18 and are interested in a spinnaker also, stick one on it. Will it be as fast as a F-16, probably not, but you will be within your budget and you won't freak out when you scratch the hulls. And, you will have more options of racing or sailing. I get the cheap boat thing. I have one boat that I have assembled out of spare parts. I think we need to continue having social gatherings, not necessarily to just race. The ones who want to race will group themselves together. The problem with the new boats coming out is it divides an already divided fleet. In our area, the majority of boats racing are non-spinnaker older boats. When you add a few spinnaker boats, now they need to be in their own class. Add a couple of foilers, now another class. What happens when there aren't enough for a class? They will usually get rolled into another class. Many spinnaker and foiling boats are more prepared for racing than non-spinnaker boats. Like many of us, I grew up with 100-120 boats on a race weekend and have watched the decline. As boat technology changes and improves, the ones who are left behind, are just that... left behind. That is the problem with any box-rule class. I'm all about innovation and improvement, but with the reality that it takes money. I think we need to build fleets from the bottom up. We need the new people buying cheap boats to learn and get excited and maybe upgrading to a faster race boat, or they stick with what they have and continue to enjoy life. But, we need to go a bit old school on race courses to entice them. We need the triangle with a reach leg. Many non-spinnaker boats get bored sailing downwind. There are tactics and much can be won or lost, but many of these racers are more excited about a screaming reach. I have been proposing to go back to a triangle windward/leeward course (A-B-C-A-C). Make the reach (B mark) 90 degree from the beat. Now insert 18-20 knots of wind... instant grins... Some of the biggest challenges (and wipeouts) was making the turn at B mark. I understand the spinnaker guys don't care about reach legs.. That's fine.. give them a double windward/leeward (A-C-A-C) course. I have heard a lot when I propose this of "... other people are not doing it." I'm used to building courses that no one else has ever done. If we only follow, nothing will progress.
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Scott
Prindle Fleet 2
TCDYC
Prindle 18-2 Mod "FrankenKitty"
Tornado Classic "Fast Furniture"
Prindle 19 "Mr. Wiggly"
Nacra 5.8 "De ja vu"
Nacra 5.0
Nacra 5.8
Tornadoes (Reg White)
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Posted: Mar 26, 2019 - 11:02 AM
Well said, Scott.
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Joshua
Texas Gulf Coast
'82 Prindle 16 (Badfish)
'02 Hobie Wave (Unnamed Project)
‘87 Hobie 18 (Sold)
‘89 Hobie 17 (ill-advised project boat, Sold)
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Posted: Mar 26, 2019 - 05:29 PM
This thread is relative to the F18...a F18 on a reach can be a scary thing...I do it regularly so would welcome the course and it is used at the Worlds level occasionally, but I think the RC has to be prepared for wipeouts and folks to go swimming.
The big thing is making sure the slower/beater boats are included...they show up, go racing, see the faster boats on the course and want a piece of the action. If they don't, that's totally cool, its more folks to enjoy the party with at the end of the day. I can tell you this is lost on the East Coast, especially with Hobie not in the F18 game and in a way the H16/Wave events and F18 events are mutually exclusive. Regardless, there is something appealing about a H16 that takes 45min to rig and 25 to break down at the end of a weekend while I'm still pulling the kite out of the bag...foilers are moving back to classics in the A to some extent and when the breeze is up many miss the F18 sailing for its less stressful than doing 30+ kts on a $30k foiling A-Cat. Point is lets figure out how to cross the divide...locally one solution we have is a 1/2 length course for the non-spin boats on days that its light air. -
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Posted: Mar 26, 2019 - 05:54 PM
Well said, Scott. I thought my friend Pete was a collector but you are giving him a run for his money. You & Sam have hit on all the highlights. We (https://sites.google.com/view/communityfleet) have been at it over 15 yrs and do a lot what you described. We don't do buoy racing for the most part but point to point. Come to Upstate NY in July and check out our type of racing. I like to put everyone on the same course and believe we have the system to do it.
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dk
Blade F-16
Hobie 14
Corsair F-242
Mirage 25 (Sold)
Hobie Tiger (Sold)
Hobie Tiger (Sold)
TomCat 6.2 (Sold)
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