st picked up a 21se and plan to replace the rigging with a set from salty dog. I know this has been discussed many times over but I’d like to add shroud extenders to assist with righting.
I prefer the hyfield lever for ease of reconnecting the rig but they only extend about 3”, I don’t think that would be enough to allow for solo right even with a bag, am I wrong?
The Hobie extenders would do the trick but getting them reconnected on the water looks sketchy. I was thinking I could add some micro blocks and cleat to the shrouds to add tension while I reconnect. Has anyone ever tried this?
What are opinions on a mast bob? Logic assumes an extra 5lb at 33’ takes an additional ~165lbs to right, is this correct? I’ve read bill404 has a self inflating vest up top which sounds like a great solution.
Hyfield lever vs Hobie shroud extender
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Posted: Apr 27, 2019 - 08:26 AM
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Posted: Apr 27, 2019 - 09:46 AM
Super Cats use Hyfield Levers. They add a extension lanyard of 7x19 wire from the tang on the hull to above the lower Nicopress on the shroud. This enables you to extend the shroud far enough to right the boat.
Having a way to cleat off your trap wire down to the hull is a great help in managing the mast once righted.
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'82 Super Cat 15
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Previously owned: '70 H14, '79 H16, '68 Sailmaster 26, '85 H14T
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Posted: Apr 27, 2019 - 11:54 AM
I'm interested in the results of this discussion as well. Picked up an example of the same boat and have been modifying trailer and repairing the SE. I got 316 standing digging, but standard length, only because i also have a fighting pole, that's about 6 feet long, attached near the striker. Don't know if that's enough, but there's a video out there of 2 guys fighting a modified 21se, with only the pole and fighting line (i think).
It sounds like its possible to use some kind of shroud extension wires looped above the nicopress, without modifying your standard length shrouds, yes? Then, on a dump, pull the upper shroud loose, leaving it now longer and slack. Make sure you have a trap wire tied off near by, then flip back over. Use trap wire and your weight to retension rig and re-pin. Have extra pins handy... Is this about right?
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Chuck C
NACRA 500 Mk2
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Posted: Apr 27, 2019 - 05:49 PM
That's the ticket. There are two Avabank pins in the Hyfield levers. One to open the lever,one to release the shroud. The eyes in the 7x19 lanyard are without thimble. A length of synthetic line would also serve.
Lets see a pic of your cat.
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'82 Super Cat 15
Hull #315
Virginia
Previously owned: '70 H14, '79 H16, '68 Sailmaster 26, '85 H14T
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Posted: Apr 27, 2019 - 07:23 PM
Man, i hate spell koreckt... Can't keep "righting"...
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Chuck C
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Posted: Apr 27, 2019 - 07:46 PM
How do you keep the mast in the socket when you detension the rig? I could see it staying in place with the supercat style, but not the Hobie 16 style. Not familiar with the 21 setup. Also I can’t imagine trying to repin a shroud with a loose mast flopping around so I’d have to lean towards levers
Edited by jalex on Apr 27, 2019 - 08:49 PM. -
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Posted: Apr 27, 2019 - 09:55 PM
Hobie 21 mast step is an entirely different design than the H16. The H21 is a ball and socket design with a pin that retains the ball to the socket so the boat will not dismast if the shrouds are loosened.
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Posted: Apr 28, 2019 - 01:54 AM
The Supercat shroud extenders absolutely rely on the mast being secured to the base, which it sounds like the H21 has. The hyfield levers alone will not provide enough extension to aid in righting, they provide enough additional length to allow repinning the shroud to the lever when the boat is righted. It is truly disconcerting to watch your rig flailing about once up, the key is to quickly get the boat sailing slowly to windward, with the loose shroud to leeward. Then the mast is stabilized, supported by the windward shroud and the forestay. Repin the shoud to the lever, and close and pin it. Which is a reasonable effort in moderate conditions, and pretty hairy in a big chop. It's doubtful that the repinning could be done solo, as you can't leave the helm long enough to fuss with the shroud. You can't allow the the boat to tack (because the rig is again flailing about), and you don't want it to bear away and power up, or you're likely to go over again, particularly with you to leeward. Plus you probably don't have enough weight to right the boat, even with the extended shroud.
I have a pair of SC levers for sale, and could provide pics and measurements from the SC20 system if you're interested. -
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Posted: Apr 28, 2019 - 02:18 AM
Charles, your conception is pretty close. As gahamby mentioned, ther 7 x 19 wire (maybe 30" long) has a nicopressed loop secured with a small shackle, to the chainplate, and another tight loop around the shroud above the nicopress at the lower end of the shroud, and that loop catches the nicopress, effectively lengthening the shroud substantially. ( I extend this wire up parallel to the shroud, and tape it to the shroud at the upper loop, to keep it out of the way. The tape pull free when deploying). This lengthened shroud now allows you to pull the upper hull towards you, a little past vertical (in your favor) before the now lengthened shroud start pulling on the mast. Now the weight of the upper hull is adding you your crew weight, assisting in pulling the mast out of the water.
And yes, this system works with your standard length shrouds. Just requires the levers, lengths of 7 x 19 wire (which can be bend into tight loops), and a means of attaching to the chainplate. Usually drilling a small hole in it, and using a small shackle. -
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Posted: Apr 28, 2019 - 09:13 AM
Hey Dave-sent you a PM. Interested in measurements, etc. Yeah, its a captive mast and at 33 something feet, its not a solo boat for me. STill, need all the help I can get to make sure it'll right.
Thanks for the help.
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Chuck C
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Posted: Apr 28, 2019 - 09:42 AM
The wire lanyards on my shrouds run about 18 inches. The bottom eye on the lanyard shares the same pin as the bottom of the lever attached to the chain plate. That pin,on my cat, is fixed with a cotter pin.
If you have blocks on your trap rig you can use the advantage to help haul the mast back in line. Padeyes at the intersection of the front crossbeam and hull will come in handy. They are also good for attaching the trap wires for anti sway lines when stepping and un stepping the mast.
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'82 Super Cat 15
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Posted: Apr 28, 2019 - 01:21 PM
With shroud extenders of decent length I believe the boat could be rigged solo, looking at this picture of the H21sc with upper hull past center I think only a little weight would be needed to right.
https://static.hobiecat.c…ked_images/extenders.jpg
I think I’m going with just shroud extenders and no levers, I want the least amount of quick release pins in the rigging. As far as reconnecting could you attach shroud to a looser setting and still sail safely? I like the idea of adding a line to trap wire to get rig under control while you reattach. -
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Posted: Apr 28, 2019 - 11:16 PM
That's a pretty serene shot under ideal conditions... I'm concerned about the 33' flailing about in 1-3's with 5-15 knot wind... Don't know if levers make it a quicker hook up, but got to think so. That pic looks like an awful lot of slack to deal with when it comes over. Is that about right for shroud extenders?
BTW, the SE has those taper pins that are cross drilled and can hold a stainless screw eye. Thinking either that or a soft shackle captured between the pin and the hull for trap line mast stepping, etc...
Still, could be worse...could be worrying about work.
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Chuck C
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Posted: Apr 29, 2019 - 10:43 AM
Question: How does one release said lever when standing on the hull of a boat that is 8ft wide? Seems like a thing to do after failing in every other way of righting.
I have always made a righting pole off the mastbase/dolphin striker for my cats.
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Posted: Apr 29, 2019 - 11:20 AM
Step on the hiking straps to access the adjuster
you sail small/ light cats - you can get away with a righting pole
these systems are used on bigger cats or ones with redunculiously heavy masts (supercats) -
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Posted: Apr 29, 2019 - 04:11 PM
"Redunculiously"- funny...that's a good one for my repertoire of dad jokes. I see what you did there...because you're going back over if you don't get it right....
Well, given that comment, it looks like I'm building shroud extenders. That's something I don't mind building myself. But, 30"??? Please excuse my ignorance, but sure seems like a lot of slack. I guess experience sure helps here, cause i wouldn't have guessed it.
Good business-thanks. Pics coming. Repairing wing sockets now. Trying to come up with a new method requiring less finish work, fewer voids and still give me the clearances. Not as easy as I thought.
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Chuck C
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Posted: May 13, 2019 - 02:51 PM
pics, measurements and price would be great. -
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Posted: May 13, 2019 - 05:34 PM
Regarding the mastbob on the SE, seems like a wise idea for the superwide cats. If you are fiddling around with extenders on the leeward side of the tramp for long, there is a high likelihood you will turtle the 600 lb beast.
I say that after seeing the trouble you can get into when an ARC22 goes belly up.
In general, I would opt to use an anchor, righting pole and bag, before shroud extenders. But they are nice to have, as a reserve. You never know what shape the crew will be in after a Huli.
A friend has a Mama Bob on his 21 SE, and I just noticed - it is on backwards!
Gotta ask him about that,..
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