• nohuhu
  
  

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  Posted: May 09, 2019 - 05:51 PM

  That's right. They can be added and it's not that hard to do.
  
  
  
  My friend and I have been hankering to add some Prindle factory wings to his already-great P18-2 for years, but have been frustrated with the lack of original parts out there. So when a Getaway was ready for the boneyard recently, we bought a salvaged set of wings and went to work. The results are great.
  
  
  
  At first, we thought the Hobie benches would have to be lengthened or offset to fit the Prindle beams, a prospect with limited chance of success. But it turns out we needed to shorten them a few inches and we were able to retain the same mounting brackets and geometry used on the Getaway.
  
  
  
  This means the wings still fold for storage and transport, and are easy to remove, should we want to do that for racing.
  
  
  
  We had to purchase endcaps for the Prindle beams, and designed internal brackets that secure the external Hobie brackets to the internal beam/hull connections. Sorry there are no picts of this, but think a thick aluminum channel that is strapped around the vertical hull bolts via 2 long stainless bolts. The rest of the wing hardware is stock.
  
  
  
  With the exception of a different length bolt to replace the soc head that attaches the extension arm to the beam.
  
  
  
  You can set the rake angle of the seat by deciding where these holes are drilled. Looking around we measured between -5º and -14º on several other Getaways and decided -6º felt about right for us. You could always drill another hole for the pin in the extension arm if you want to have a different seating angle, such as positioning the benches further away from the hulls (for added hiking effect).
  
  
  
  My favorite mod was experimenting with different types of closed cell foam under the new mesh seat covers, My boney arse approves of this one!
  
  
  
  Now it's time to sail and enjoy,..
  
  BEFORE:
  
  
  AFTER:
  
  
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  Prindle 18
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• bill40421SE
  
  

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  Posted: May 09, 2019 - 06:17 PM

  Nice setup with the wings....they look very comfortable.
  
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  Bill 404 21SE
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• car_guy
  
  

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  Posted: May 09, 2019 - 06:32 PM

  Great job guys, I always thought the getaway wings could be adapted with minimal effort to work with most beach cats.

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• tstein
  
  

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  Posted: May 09, 2019 - 11:27 PM

  Thanks for the share. Looks pretty straightforward and doable. Anyone know of wings in VA?
  
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  Todd
  
  Virginia
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• MN3
  
  

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  Posted: May 10, 2019 - 08:49 AM

  Nice!
  now trap out on those ...
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  Edited by MN3 on May 10, 2019 - 09:01 AM.

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• rch701
  
  

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  Posted: May 10, 2019 - 08:57 AM

  Awesome!, Now for us home builders can you post some basic dimensions? Length of poles pin to pin, seat size, pole diameter? One day I might have a big enough stock of aluminum to fab one of these. It seems all wings are hard to come by aftermarket.
  
  --
  FYC, Nacra 5.2 "Chris's Flyer" & Nacra Playcat & Farrier Tramp
  Previously owned: Trac 14, H14, H16, H18, N5.0, G-cat 5.0
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• Andinista
  
  

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  Posted: May 10, 2019 - 10:57 AM

  Excelent!!
  Did you through away the rest of the Getaway?

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• nohuhu
  
  

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  Posted: May 10, 2019 - 04:08 PM

  MN3

  Nice!
  now trap out on those ...
  

  
  That's on the agenda for tomorrow! Which brings up a good subject.
  
  Sitting on the wings is NOT the same as old-fashioned trapping when the boat starts to heel. Two-up on the bench seems to have about the same effect as having a large crew member on the wire - until it gusts. You don't have the same ~20x mechanical advantage you get while pulling the top end of the mast. The original trap lines and handles are at the wrong height to use now.
  
  During testing in 15-25 mph wind, I rigged a chicken line to the shrouds and leaned over the seats to add a little righting effort. Big difference. I expect 2 seated crew adding a little extra leverage to the mast should handle most any wind. (We usually don't double-trap anyway).
  
  We guesstimated, and trimmed about 1 foot off the rear trap lines and reswaged them. The front set will require a little more. I'll know better after I get a chance to hike out this weekend.
  
  Any advice on making these trap adjustments and useful wing hiking techniques would really be welcomed.
  
  BEFORE,..
  
  
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  Prindle 18
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• MN3
  
  

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  Posted: May 10, 2019 - 05:23 PM

  Quote

  Any advice on making these trap adjustments and useful wing hiking techniques would really be welcomed.

  
  the wing fabricator added hiking straps to the wing frame - it allows all to hike out and i am told this is also very helpful after a capsize. (i have yet to capsize with my wings) but the fabricator/owner did 1 time with his wife and kid
  
  seems like you know what your doing on the trap wires.
  i don't even put trap wires on the cat when i have wings on it but ... I can't see the need for 2 sets of traps with the wings but you may ..
  
  enjoy!
  
  
  
  Edited by MN3 on May 10, 2019 - 05:25 PM.

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• Andinista
  
  

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  Posted: May 10, 2019 - 05:34 PM

  nohuhu

  
  You don't have the same ~20x mechanical advantage you get while pulling the top end of the mast.
  

  
  
  The effect of pulling from the top of the mast or through the wing supported by the hull is the same. The only difference is that on the wire you can stand straight and reach further back. If you were on the trap in the same position as sitting on the wing, it would be exactly the same. You can even test it by pulling the wire until you unweight your butt, there should be no effect on righting moment.
  
  
  
  Edited by Andinista on May 10, 2019 - 05:36 PM.

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• nohuhu
  
  

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  Posted: May 10, 2019 - 07:30 PM

  MN3, that strap is just what I was thinking of adding, maybe with a quick connect clip and a small pool noodle over it for comfort.
  
  I expect we will mostly want to hike our butts out over the wing occasionally for effect, and the straps and wires will allow us to keep both hands free for the tiller and sheets.
  
  Or for photo shoots, I could go full gorilla and trap standing tiptoes on the wings.
  
  Was that you on the wire in those shots?
  
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• nohuhu
  
  

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  Posted: May 10, 2019 - 09:29 PM

  Andinista

  nohuhu

  
  You don't have the same ~20x mechanical advantage you get while pulling the top end of the mast.
  

  
  The effect of pulling from the top of the mast or through the wing supported by the hull is the same. The only difference is that on the wire you can stand straight and reach further back. If you were on the trap in the same position as sitting on the wing, it would be exactly the same. You can even test it by pulling the wire until you unweight your butt, there should be no effect on righting moment.Edited by Andinista on May 10, 2019 - 05:36 PM.

  
  I see your point, but without footstraps (or seatbelts) and a wire you can’t leverage the full potential of the wings. You need something else to support your mass, low and away from the hull. Even MN3’s abs are not THAT strong.
  
  Pulling on the masthound also allows me to power up the rig, while having greater control of boat balance than I would have if I just sat unsecured on the wing. In that sense, the two 2 techniques are not equal.
  
  My next goal is to drop my tail over the comfy padded seat when needed and partially hike out, shifting my weight onto the harness and wire. Never straying too far from the cup holders...
  
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• MN3
  
  

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  Posted: May 11, 2019 - 03:12 PM

  Andinista

  nohuhu

  
  You don't have the same ~20x mechanical advantage you get while pulling the top end of the mast.
  

  
  
  The effect of pulling from the top of the mast or through the wing supported by the hull is the same. The only difference is that on the wire you can stand straight and reach further back. If you were on the trap in the same position as sitting on the wing, it would be exactly the same. You can even test it by pulling the wire until you unweight your butt, there should be no effect on righting moment.Edited by Andinista on May 10, 2019 - 05:36 PM.

  
  I thought about this last night ...
  i was going to ask other's their opinion
  
  the only variable i would add with a trap line is: i THINK you can add a little mast bend/sail flattening with the trap wire-masthound attachment... that would help reduce heel and would be a good thing when the need to max-hike. also something to fear think about with 2 on the wire with loads of wind
  
  I also think: if it was me ... if it's 15-25k,
  upwind i'm cracking off the traveler .. if that isn't enough to manage the boat from extreme heel - i'm furling. i can't see the need for 2 on the wire unless it's just for fun. I have been double trapped off the wings on this same boat (with skipper inboard): a dozen years ago, 2 owners ago. it was not blowing hard enough to really need it but it was fun.
  
  
  
  

  Quote

  MN3, that strap is just what I was thinking of adding, maybe with a quick connect clip and a small pool noodle over it for comfort.
  

  
  I strongly prefer regular hiking webbing. i have been using regular webbing on boats for 45 years now, i don't want to throw in 2 versions on my cat. i also think about future non sailing crew i will have aboard and try to keep things similar for them to remember. as per quick connect. i find line completely sufficient. no need for hardware unless you have some need i don't. I have tried to set up barber haulers in my wings .. it was never perfected. i am sure it could work.
  
  

  Quote

  Was that you on the wire in those shots?
  

  
  no - my buddy zack on his mystere
  
  this is me on the wire on my h18 (also on video/youtube)
  
  
  
  
  full disclosure: my wings are hanging in my garage for 2 years now (ever since i found cracks in my 5.5 beams 2 years ago)
  the 5.5 has JUST been back in the water.
  
  the 6.0 was/is a lot more power so no wings and no spin were needed esp solo.
  
  the wings add too much time and difficulty with set up and much worse on breakdown with securing for the 5 mile ride home.. plus: it's weight in the wrong spots. not a lot but outside and in the back 1/2 of the boat - changes the coe and angles of the boards ... and ... and
  
  I'll prob relaod the 5.5 with both toys soon (wings /spin)
  
  
  
  Edited by MN3 on May 11, 2019 - 06:49 PM.

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• nohuhu
  
  

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  Posted: May 13, 2019 - 04:50 AM

  The good news for us is the boat stays parked at the beach. The wings stay on, and flip up for storage. The worse part about them (on land) is how they get in the way while loading the boat with beer and safety gear. My long arms come in handy.
  
  We rigged simple footsteps using adjustable kayak tiedowns inside 3/4" foam insulation. Worked perfectly. They go on and off the boat in seconds.
  
  On the water, we don't seem to be paying much of a price in performance. Wings make it so easy to shift our weight around, that our overall trim has probably improved.
  
  It is so effortless to stand up and move around the 18-2 now that we tend to try out a lot more positions.
  
  Some other plusses:
  
  More comfort and less fatigue. (I don’t have to sit on a traveler or daggerboard all day, bang my knees up or tear my trunks on all the deck hardware).
  
  Higher perspective and ease of navigation.
  
  The waterline clearance is good - we have not dragged the leeward wing in the water yet.
  
  Roll tacking is very effective with the skipper on the windward rear wing position.
  
  The Trap lines worked well for both crew members, when shifting our weight out over the bench. I really felt secure leaning out with both controls in my hands on several fast runs. My crew was actually standing on the hull, ready to move his weight as needed. I skippered standing up a few times, when running downwind.
  
  Negatives:
  
  Getaway wings are not as light as the Nacra versions. They do add weight toward the aft half of the boat but that's only been an issue with cattrax placement so far. The new balance point is likely 1 ft aft of the dagger centerline. I'll experiment and see.
  
  You may need to raise your cleating angles to adjust for the higher crew position.
  
  Reaching down from the wings to gather up the lines during a tack is an unnatural position for the skipper. (Head lower that butt). The crew could help do this.
  
  Metal wings with black tramps can get hot enough to burn, but this usually only a problem on land.
  
  I mentioned I rarely double trap when I skipper, but it seems to be the norm around here, even on the faster winged boats. Our friends put on a clinic yesterday for us, double-trapped WAY out on their 21SE wings. It is their "go to" mode.
  
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  Prindle 18
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• Edchris177
  
  

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  Posted: May 13, 2019 - 05:30 AM

  I used to have a Mystere 6XL, (20’ x 10’). It had a set of customized Hobie 21 wings. Made the boat almost 14’ wide. It had double traps, it’s a spooky thing to be that far out when a hull lifts. You only have the 2” pipe to balance on. Lose your footing & it’s a long fall onto the boom or boards.
  I used to single hand this beast, with a tramp launched spin. The wings are great, they keep you up out of the spray, & if you were far enough to drag them in the water, you were going over anyway. In contrast my Hobie 18 Magnum will easily drag a wing in the water.
  One of the few downsides is reboarding after a swim or capsize. If your not to rotound you can slide between wing & hull.
  Another item, rarely mentioned, is the hiking stik. Your normal 8’ stik is not long enough once you are trapped off the wing. On my Mystere, I needed the longest FX stik made.
  The photo trapped out is only a 7mph wind, the hull is just kissing the water.
  
  
  
  
  
  Edited by Edchris177 on May 13, 2019 - 08:43 AM.
  
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• nohuhu
  
  

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  Posted: May 13, 2019 - 05:50 PM

  Good point about checking the stick. On this 8'6" beam Prindle with its closer Getaway wings, it may still reach. Sorta.
  
  We'll probably draw straws to see who gets to trap off the back first.
  
  
  
  Edited by nohuhu on May 13, 2019 - 01:54 PM.
  
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• MN3
  
  

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  Posted: May 13, 2019 - 07:55 PM

  Quote

  Good point about checking the stick. On this 8'6" beam Prindle with its closer Getaway wings, it may still reach. Sorta.

  
  
  single handed ... we stand closer to the shroud
  same in light air when sitting more up front
  
  also sheet length comes into play .. I was amazed at how much longer my jib sheets were with wings
  
  when i first purchased my 6.0 i was overwhelmed with the amount of jib sheet it had to deal with on deck. i took off the spin mostly for deck line management ... it's a different creature when the lines aren't lying right next to you to manage them

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• nohuhu
  
  

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  Posted: May 14, 2019 - 09:33 PM

  You might enjoy seeing what happens when we got high-sided with both of us out on the wing.
  
  
  
  We were cruising on a nice reach around 16mph, when a small whirlwind from the nearby flightline crossed our path and suddenly sucked the sails in reverse. You can’t see these devils coming, but the GoPro captured the whole thing.
  
  
  
  I’m guessing that if I was out on the wire, trapping normally, I would have been teabagged.
  
  
  
  Edited by nohuhu on May 14, 2019 - 05:46 PM.
  
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• CatFan57
  
  

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  Posted: May 14, 2019 - 11:52 PM

  Looks like a nice ride.
  
  --
  1998 P18.2
  Sailing out of SHBCC, NJ
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• MN3
  
  

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  Posted: May 15, 2019 - 07:57 AM

  Quote

  hen a small whirlwind from the nearby flightline crossed our path and suddenly sucked the sails in reverse.

  
  pics or it never happened (or vid in this case)
  
  we sail into wind holes around here (windage from some land feature) but we don't have whirlwind from planes to worry about...

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