P16 Switching to Jib Roller Furler

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dmydlack

Rank: Lubber

Registered: Feb 27, 2017

Last visit: Feb 12, 2021

Posts: 35
Posted: Jun 14, 2019 - 11:46 AM

Is a roller furler arrangement like Murray's Roller Furling Kit rigged parallel with the existing forestay (running right next to it) or does it replace the forestay (the forestay function is taken over by the jib/furler rig?
Thank you.

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Prindle 16
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dmydlack

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Registered: Feb 27, 2017

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Posts: 35
Posted: Jun 14, 2019 - 11:50 AM

I think I found my answer:
"How a Sail for a Roller Furler Differs from Its Hanked On Cousin
01/07/15
There are two fundamentally different styles of furling. They can be looked upon as dinghy systems and keel boat systems. Dinghy systems are simple two piece systems, having a drum assembly at the bottom, and a swivel at the top. Nothing connects the two components except for the sail itself. Sails used with this system typically have rigging wire installed in the luff. This wire acts as the boat's forestay. When the mast is stepped the rig is supported by the wire luff. An additional forestay is not used as it would have less tension than the wire luff and tangle in the sail when the sail is furled. A two piece, dinghy style system is not intended to be a reefing system. It is only a storage device to eliminate the heads'l while docking or when a spinnaker is hoisted."

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klozhald

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Posted: Jun 14, 2019 - 02:37 PM

dmydlackor does it replace the forestay (the forestay function is taken over by the jib/furler rig?

It works with your current forestay. The swivel goes on the forestay above the pigtail, and the furler drum connects at the bridles on the lower end of the forestay. The forestay must be shortened to accommodate the swivel and drum length. As the furler drum spins the forestay to let the jib out, it is also spinning the jib halyard and pigtail.

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nohuhu

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Posted: Jun 14, 2019 - 03:48 PM

The Harken furler (top) requires a marine eye end on your forestay or turnbuckle. Do you have a turnbuckle now?

Murrays can sell you a new forestay to match, or give you advice.

The line inside the Harken is crap, not much better than kite string. I’ll be replacing mine w dyneema.

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Prindle 18
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dmydlack

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Posted: Jun 14, 2019 - 09:30 PM

Thank you

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MN3

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Posted: Jun 18, 2019 - 11:01 AM

QuoteThe line inside the Harken is crap, not much better than kite string. I’ll be replacing mine w dyneema.

furlers don't come with line - so that was added by murray's

PS - if you purchase the furler and swivel together you save a few bucks
(again i am not a big fan of the ronstan version as they are not serviceable)

Drum and swivel together from APS -APS Price $315.99

http://www.apsltd.com/har…p0uLCmAUtIaAlPyEALw_wcB

Murrays - $392
Drum https://www.murrays.com/product/28-0165/ - $236
swivel https://www.murrays.com/product/28-0164/ - $156
JohnES

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Posted: Jun 18, 2019 - 12:24 PM

klozhald[The forestay must be shortened to accommodate the swivel and drum length.

The Murrays kit give you a shorter pig tail to compensate for the roller furler drum and swivel... do not shorten your forstay...

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John Schwartz
Ventura, CA
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JohnES

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Posted: Jun 18, 2019 - 12:31 PM

MN3
furlers don't come with line - so that was added by murray's

PS - if you purchase the furler and swivel together you save a few bucks
(again i am not a big fan of the ronstan version as they are not serviceable)

Drum and swivel together from APS -APS Price $315.99

Murrays - $392

APS does a great job and I like thier "end of season" sale.. some great prices on the wish list stuff I accumulate over the year..

With the Murray's kit you are getting a plug and play option... the fore-stay pig tail, the jam cleat for the line, the pad eye, and the line guide off the furler for $389.00... No need to re-figure your mast rake etc.....

nohuhuThe Harken furler (top) requires a marine eye end on your forestay or turnbuckle. Do you have a turnbuckle now?

Just put the end in a vice and clamp down on it to compress it to fit... Doesn't take much and I have done this on three Prindles... never a problem..

Edited by JohnES on Jun 18, 2019 - 10:37 AM.

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John Schwartz
Ventura, CA
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MN3

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Posted: Jun 18, 2019 - 12:48 PM

QuoteWith the Murray's kit you are getting a plug and play option... the fore-stay pig tail, the jam cleat for the line, the pad eye, and the line guide off the furler for $389.00... No need to re-figure your mast rake etc.....

those prices are for just furlers
the kit cost $495. for non h16's
MN3

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Posted: Jun 18, 2019 - 12:52 PM

JohnES
klozhald[The forestay must be shortened to accommodate the swivel and drum length.

The Murrays kit give you a shorter pig tail to compensate for the roller furler drum and swivel... do not shorten your forstay...

not sure how that is possible
if you have a 20' forestay and you add a pigtail, furler and swivel... you are adding length to your forestay system - how could a not need a shorter forestay?
nohuhu

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Posted: Jun 18, 2019 - 05:21 PM

I guess it makes sense if you had a pigtail there and Murrays gives you a 5" shorter, reswaged one. I ordered a new P18 forestay with the furling kit so I can't tell you which components Murrays tweaked...

Andrew, appreciate the advice on the roller hardware. Will that low profile harken accomodate the swaged thimble found on our forestays, or are you expected to use a D shackle, etc?

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JohnES

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Posted: Jun 18, 2019 - 05:50 PM

MN3
those prices are for just furlers
the kit cost $495. for non h16's

Nope, $389 for the whole kit for a Prindle from Murray's... I just bought one..

http:////www.murrays.com/product/30-5061/

MN3
if you have a 20' forestay and you add a pigtail, furler and swivel... you are adding length to your forestay system - how could a not need a shorter forestay?

Prindles have an upper (pigtail) and lower forestay… the upper (pigtail) is the one the gets shortened to accommodate the new hardware… the lower forestay does not get altered.. this accommodates the sail luff

Upper Foresatay

Lower Forestay

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John Schwartz
Ventura, CA
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nohuhu

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Posted: Jun 18, 2019 - 06:43 PM

Adding to the confusion, the stock pigtail looks exactly like the kit version, in their pictures.

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JohnES

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Posted: Jun 18, 2019 - 07:02 PM

nohuhuAdding to the confusion, the stock pigtail looks exactly like the kit version, in their pictures.

It is about 5" shorter... not much to work with on the 18-2 as it was a short one to begin with...

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John Schwartz
Ventura, CA
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nohuhu

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Posted: Jun 18, 2019 - 08:32 PM

Just to be clear, do they shorten both sides of the pigtail? The forestay and halyard cables, equally?

I did the whole replacement, bridals and all at the same time. When all was done, I ended up slightly shorter, and unable to add as much mast rake, for tuning, as I would like. Or as much downhaul. My turnbuckles are maxed out.

I’m thinking about putting a D shackle or other hardware in-line to gain back a few inches. I don’t know if a shroud adjuster can be added now.

Any advice on doing this with the Murrays kit installed?

Edited by nohuhu on Jun 18, 2019 - 04:36 PM.
JohnES

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Posted: Jun 18, 2019 - 09:54 PM

nohuhuJust to be clear, do they shorten both sides of the pigtail? The forestay and halyard cables, equally?

Good question.... I don't know.... I am pretty certain the fore-stay portion is shortened I never thought to check the side where the halayard threads through..

When I got to this point I still had the old upper (pigtail) and lower forstay... I laid them out out next to the new set up... there was about a 1/4" difference in favor of the old set up.. that is it new set up was shorter...

With that, when I put one on my Prindle 18 like yours there was a little finessing to get the rake right... but I didn't have to change out any hardware once I put the roller furler on... My question is how much rake do you want?

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John Schwartz
Ventura, CA
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nohuhu

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Posted: Jun 18, 2019 - 10:43 PM

I think I lost couple inches changing to the marine eye system. It may have fewer threads on it than the original bracket and it required I use a slightly shorter turnbuckle, because the threads reversed.

I'd like to get enough extra rake to drop 2 more pinholes in the sidestays AND recover at least an inch of adjustability on the front turnbuckle (1/2" each side). I'm at the 4th hole down now with no room on the turnbuckle to go lower.

My kid's not around to check my geometry, so I can't say if +1" of forestay = +1" of rake = +1" of sidestay. But I guestimate I should add 2-3" to the front.

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MN3

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Posted: Jun 19, 2019 - 08:37 AM

QuoteAndrew, appreciate the advice on the roller hardware. Will that low profile harken accomodate the swaged thimble found on our forestays, or are you expected to use a D shackle, etc?

my 5.5 has a Tipan jib halyard inline block assembly (i think that's where that came from)
My 6.0 has a long D shackle inline
PS - not suggesting anyone change out a working ronstan for a harken - just my personal preference

Edited by MN3 on Jun 19, 2019 - 11:30 AM.
MN3

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Posted: Jun 19, 2019 - 08:46 AM

QuoteNope, $389 for the whole kit for a Prindle from Murray's... I just bought one..

SWEET! i didn't see that when i was looking

my main point was - I myself have purchased drums without realizing I could get both for about the same cost

QuotePrindles have an upper (pigtail) and lower forestay… the upper (pigtail) is the one the gets shortened to accommodate the new hardware… the lower forestay does not get altered.. this accommodates the sail luff
Upper Foresatay

Gotcha! i forgot that Prindles had a 2 part forestay (ring and s hook)

Keep me honest~! thanks
MN3

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Posted: Jun 19, 2019 - 09:04 AM

duplicate post

Edited by MN3 on Jun 19, 2019 - 09:07 AM.