Seems like some of the newer boats are moving towards much smaller, or in some cases no jib at all. Just watched a vid about M32 cats and they really dissed using a jib; not to mention the A Class boats.
So even if you have an older boat with a jib, as an example something like my Prindle 18-2 is it necessary to sail it with the jib up; or can you just go with the main.
Since I am still not able to get my boat in the water, due to title issues which are being resolved, all I can do is play on the internet. Hoping some of the more experienced guys can provide advice about how much weather helm is increased by not using a jib, can the boat point higher with no jib flying, and any other advice.
How important is the jib
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Posted: Sep 17, 2019 - 01:06 PM
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Posted: Sep 17, 2019 - 01:53 PM
your cat will perform MUCH better with a jib
upwind: size of a jib is not a critical factor. shape is
without a jib you may struggle to tack. the jib is a big help with tacking a beachcat. I really dislike when i am overpowered with wind and weighed down with crew sans jib. It makes me blow tacks left and right
you will have to be much more precise with your weight during a tack (both placement and when to move to the other side) - or you will blow the tac
you will have to exaggerate your turn (go deeper in your new tack - to a close reach) or you will run out of gas and get then stuck in irons
your jib helps balance out your sail plan - without a jib you may have some added tug on your rudders, but probably not a bunch.
downwind - size is a factor, esp deeper sailing
i doubt you will have much handling issues sans jib - but you will be much slower overall
newer design beachcats are typically designed for either comfort or racing. both give reason for a smaller jib - with a smaller foot that only goes to the front beam.
cruisers want a cleaner deck for crew
racers use a spin for the down wind leg of a race, no big overlapping jib needed or wanted
Edited by MN3 on Sep 17, 2019 - 03:19 PM. -
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Posted: Sep 17, 2019 - 02:01 PM
The boat will point higher with no jib
One reason for the jib only going to the front beam is the new boats have a self tacking jib -
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Posted: Sep 17, 2019 - 02:21 PM
The new racing boats do
non "race" boats typically don't have self tacking jibs (e.g. new nacra 500, 570, h16, etc all adjust on the front beam) -
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Posted: Sep 17, 2019 - 02:23 PM
The boat will lack punch in the chop.
You're comparing apples and oranges.
You only need to go sail and tack an A cat and a Hobie 16 without a jib to see the difference and it isn't just rudder rake.
There's too many things at play.
M32 and A cats have extremely efficient rigs.
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Joshua
Texas Gulf Coast
'82 Prindle 16 (Badfish)
'02 Hobie Wave (Unnamed Project)
‘87 Hobie 18 (Sold)
‘89 Hobie 17 (ill-advised project boat, Sold)
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Posted: Sep 17, 2019 - 03:24 PM
ragebot - PM sent -
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Posted: Sep 17, 2019 - 03:49 PM
It's much more complicated than just taking the jib off.
- M32, A-cat, M20, CFR20; were all designed as uni rigs. You'll notice that the main beams are further forward, more mast rake, boards further aft, etc. Taking the jib off of your 18-2 won't just magically make it go upwind better; it was designed for a jib and should therefore sail better with it.
- Jibs pull 4-5x harder per unit area than a mainsail does, however their primary function is drag reduction/efficiency improvement for the main while also balancing the sail plan against the hull plan/boards and rudders. The S9 saw a significant performance improvement with addition of a jib b/c of the improved balance of the sail plan.
- A uni is MUCH harder to reach with than a sloop.
- Uni's have a narrower groove upwind than sloops do.
- Uni's can point higher than a sloop if designed correctly; assuming this is true, you aren't lacking for power in chop, but it does make the boat harder to sail in light air. -
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Posted: Sep 17, 2019 - 03:53 PM
Got your PM. -
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Posted: Sep 17, 2019 - 03:57 PM
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Posted: Sep 17, 2019 - 05:32 PM
First, tacking without a jib ... I guess folks here didn't start out on a H14. If you did, well, tacking without a jib would be "a piece of cake" on any of these newer than a H16 boat.
As for powering up a Uni rig, it seems to be the opposite. When I contacted Goodall to get a bigger main on my F16 since I sail one up jib less most of the time, they told me that their one up mains were actually smaller in area than the standard mains and not bigger. I find myself fairly competitive in light area with just main and spinnaker.
I was at Roton Pt this weekend and understand the draw of H16; one design racing and big fleets. However, if you want new design sailing, you have to go to a new design. Sorry.
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dk
Blade F-16
Hobie 14
Corsair F-242
Mirage 25 (Sold)
Hobie Tiger (Sold)
Hobie Tiger (Sold)
TomCat 6.2 (Sold)
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