Windsurf Mast => Spinnaker Pole :: Catamaran Sailboats at TheBeachcats.com

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Windsurf Mast => Spinnaker Pole

jlooby

Rank: Lubber

Registered: Feb 26, 2014

Last visit: Nov 17, 2024

Posts: 89
Posted: Oct 25, 2019 - 04:36 PM

Hi all,

I'm losing my beach spot so looking to quicken my setup. I have an aluminum pole for my H17 spinnaker but I'm thinking of moving to a Code 0 w/Ronstan Series 60 for a quick setup (main + code 0). I'd rather keep my existing spin pole and SNU intact as is and use a separate pole for my Code 0 setup. I know about pre-tensioning and I was wondering if anyone had made a spin pole from a carbon fiber windsurf mast and if so, did you use the base and cut off the top or keep the top and cut off the base?

Thanks for any advice/direction you can provide.

James - H17, F25C+
MN3

Rank: Master Chief

Registered: Jun 20, 2006

Last visit: May 22, 2024

Posts: 7089
Posted: Oct 25, 2019 - 08:01 PM

Quote I was wondering if anyone had made a spin pole from a carbon fiber windsurf mast

Close:
i have had fiberglass spin poles made from windsurfer mast
I have had 4 different alum sized bow sprits (2 f18 sizes, 1 Tornado sized, 1 a few inches longer than T sized)
i currently have a CF windsurf mast rigged identical to a spin pole but cut shorter to hang a small front tramp off of and to secure a turning block under my furler for "on the fly jib luff control"

so i have some insight but not exactly what you requested.

my thoughts:
alum poles are very cheap - probably the easy solution e.g. $100 ish
my fiberglass spin pole worked fine but had a good deal of flex. if i recall i snapped it in a capsize when somehow my foot used it to stand on
when i cut down my cf pole i used the top 1/2 since i didn't care about flex

if it was me: i would purchase a new alum pole to reduce flex - but if you have the cf mast and want to try i would use the thicker part for the same reason

since you don't have a standard bridal, you have less attachment places (i think) to secure and restrain the pole and therefore would have even more flex than any other cat that doesn't have twin halyards (assuming your setup is stock)

not only will the flex affect luff tension of your spin/code ... but will exacerbate the worming out of the holes you have to drill to attach the hardware to secure it to the beam.

one more suggestion: CF and salt water don't mix. if you sail in salt... i highly recommend you get synthetic spacers/washers of some kind to seperate all metal (bolts/nuts). I also liberally applied tef-gel and still have rust

spacer reference (also done inside the beam)

Edited by MN3 on Oct 25, 2019 - 08:05 PM.
pknapp66

Rank: Mate

Registered: May 09, 2009

Last visit: Aug 14, 2024

Posts: 686
Posted: Oct 26, 2019 - 09:19 AM

Is it possible to use a piece out of the middle of the mast? If you think the bottom is too stiff and the top too
flexible, I would think you could split the difference by choosing a section that meets your needs.

--
Pete Knapp
Schodack landing,NY
Goodall Viper,AHPC Viper,Nacra I20
--
MN3

Rank: Master Chief

Registered: Jun 20, 2006

Last visit: May 22, 2024

Posts: 7089
Posted: Oct 26, 2019 - 12:50 PM

Quotetoo stiff
???
you want stiff in a spin pole

this is for a windsurf sail but generally applicable to a spin pole

"If the mast stiffness is higher than what is specified by manufacturer we have:
A more stable sail, since it will deflect less
More power since we have a tighter leech
A fuller profile
This is a better option for heavier riders as they will subject their sails (and masts) to more power and the correct mast might deflect too much for them."

"If the mast stiffness is lower than what is specified by manufacturer we have:

A less stable sail since it will deflect with each gust, changing the power in the leech
Less power as the leech releases much of the power
A flatter profile
The sail will feel softer as the gusts are absorbed by the mast (like the suspension on a car)
This is better for lighter riders who want more control and speed when sailing on choppy water"

http://howtowindsurf101.com/windsurf-mast-buying-guide/
MN3

Rank: Master Chief

Registered: Jun 20, 2006

Last visit: May 22, 2024

Posts: 7089
Posted: Oct 26, 2019 - 12:54 PM

Quoteto quicken my setup. I have an aluminum pole for my H17 spinnaker but I'm thinking of moving to a Code 0 w/Ronstan Series 60 for a quick setup (main + code 0).

Sounds like speed is your goal and your willing to buy a code zero and furler for it
if that is true, i have a better, faster, cheaper solution

just keep your spin in your snuffer, and on your cat at all times
lost of us do that around here. sure your sail will suffer a bit, and die a bit faster but i can tell u my first 2 spins lived that way for years. sure the bag would fill with water in storms too but ... so what? nylon doesn't mildew (at least never did to mine nor others)

if u really care about your spin condition of course its better to remove, wash, dry and flake it every time - but that adds an hour(ish) per rigging.
revintage

Rank: Mate

Registered: Aug 13, 2017

Last visit: Aug 22, 2024

Posts: 281
Posted: Oct 26, 2019 - 02:37 PM

This is how I did it on our 5.5 Frankencat. Used a 50x2mm aluminium tube up to the bridle arrangement. Forward of that a cut down windsurfer mast. Can be interchanged for a longer/shorter snout if needed.

Edited by revintage on Oct 26, 2019 - 04:55 PM.

--
Brgds
Lars

Frankentri 5.8/5.5/Inter20
Aerow trimaran foiler

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1192604934176635
--
martin_langhoff

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Registered: Oct 26, 2016

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Posts: 233
Posted: Oct 28, 2019 - 09:24 AM

Windsurfer masts are flexy/bendy. You'll need a strong bridle and diamond wires -- with good tension, probably a good degree of pre-bend -- to get acceptable luff tension on the spinnaker. You can see revintage's photo above.
MN3

Rank: Master Chief

Registered: Jun 20, 2006

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Posts: 7089
Posted: Oct 28, 2019 - 09:49 AM

Quote You'll need a strong bridle and diamond wires --

Diamond wires?
martin_langhoff

Rank: Mate

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Posts: 233
Posted: Oct 28, 2019 - 01:40 PM

I'm not using the right term. What's the wire that goes to the dolphin striker?
MN3

Rank: Master Chief

Registered: Jun 20, 2006

Last visit: May 22, 2024

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Posted: Oct 28, 2019 - 02:00 PM

A. the martingale stay, B the dolphin striker and C the bobstay.
most cat spin poles don't have one, unless you have an extra long pole
(does your whisper pole have a dolphin striker assembly?)

I have seen a pole on an h17 with a crazy long pole but it don't have one either.

a support above pole is called a pelican striker

Sometimes the lines that go from the bridal to the end of the pole are also referred to as the martingale (while not accurate)

Edited by MN3 on Oct 28, 2019 - 02:05 PM.
revintage

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Posted: Oct 28, 2019 - 02:52 PM

Actually the dolphin striker was made of one end of a 49er spreader that was shorted. It showed up to be to short and is now substituded for the other, but uncut spreader. All lines used are 3mm Dyneema.

--
Brgds
Lars

Frankentri 5.8/5.5/Inter20
Aerow trimaran foiler

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1192604934176635
--
MN3

Rank: Master Chief

Registered: Jun 20, 2006

Last visit: May 22, 2024

Posts: 7089
Posted: Oct 28, 2019 - 03:32 PM

revintageThis is how I did it on our 5.5 Frankencat. Used a 50x2mm aluminium tube up to the bridle arrangement. Forward of that a cut down windsurfer mast. Can be interchanged for a longer/shorter snout if needed.

why would you need a longer/shorter end? to swap between a furling code 0/spin and a non furling spin?
revintage

Rank: Mate

Registered: Aug 13, 2017

Last visit: Aug 22, 2024

Posts: 281
Posted: Oct 28, 2019 - 04:30 PM

It can be changed without touching the bridle arrangement, I didn´t say I would. It can also be changed to an aluminum if I get tired by the flexy pole. The spin I have now is from a Nacra Infusion. But one of these days I might get another crazy idea, like trying the 49er spin .

--
Brgds
Lars

Frankentri 5.8/5.5/Inter20
Aerow trimaran foiler

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1192604934176635
--
wlrottge

Rank: Mate

Registered: Oct 24, 2006

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Posts: 160
Posted: Oct 28, 2019 - 05:58 PM

I've got a lot of miles using a windsurfer mast as a spin pole; the flexibility actually isn't a bad thing b/c if you break a bridle line, it won't necessarily take the whole pole with it.

Truth be told, it is a very good option that has been used for years, even back into the Worrell days. These masts are quite durable, but don't drill any holes unless you absolutely have to!!

I made the carbon dolphin striker in the pictures to pre-bend the pole b/c bridle lines didn't provide enough support.

(wasn't finished at this point)
https://drive.google.com/…OtakRmh/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/…pSNz1YA/view?usp=sharing

Edited by wlrottge on Oct 28, 2019 - 06:04 PM.
jlooby

Rank: Lubber

Registered: Feb 26, 2014

Last visit: Nov 17, 2024

Posts: 89
Posted: Oct 29, 2019 - 05:24 PM

Thanks again all and to the H17 forestay removes the need for the striker and assists with prebend since the pole is be supported upwards right under the jib furler and then of course the end is held down in prebent position with dyneema out to bows. Who'd of thought I'd actually like (and use) the hull flange.

James H17, F25C
revintage

Rank: Mate

Registered: Aug 13, 2017

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Posts: 281
Posted: Oct 30, 2019 - 06:58 AM

wlrottgeI've got a lot of miles using a windsurfer mast as a spin pole; the flexibility actually isn't a bad thing b/c if you break a bridle line, it won't necessarily take the whole pole with it.

I made the carbon dolphin striker in the pictures to pre-bend the pole b/c bridle lines didn't provide enough support.

https://drive.google.com/…pSNz1YA/view?usp=sharing

Congrats, unlike me, you made the striker rod long enough from the beginning .

Edited by revintage on Oct 30, 2019 - 06:59 AM.

--
Brgds
Lars

Frankentri 5.8/5.5/Inter20
Aerow trimaran foiler

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1192604934176635
--
texastuma

Rank: Mate

Registered: Nov 22, 2012

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Posts: 412
Posted: Nov 06, 2019 - 09:04 AM

When we started chutes on cats in the late 80s, we used a Sunfish mast. It was stiff and "heavy", but I never broke one. I have gone through windsurfer mast and shattered them. But, I'm also running the chute in 20-30 knot of wind. The best set-up I came up with (with a limited boat budget) is an aluminum 2" spinnaker pole with a "V" style dolphin striker (about 18" long). I would run two dolphin striker lines from the tip to each end of the "spreader" and then to the crossbeam at the hull. This would give a "Y" style of support. I would then just run side stays to the forestay tangs. The pole tip would be about 4' beyond the bow on my P-19. I believe you should be able to lift the boat by the pole.

--
Scott

Prindle Fleet 2
TCDYC

Prindle 18-2 Mod "FrankenKitty"
Tornado Classic "Fast Furniture"
Prindle 19 "Mr. Wiggly"
Nacra 5.8 "De ja vu"
Nacra 5.0
Nacra 5.8
Tornadoes (Reg White)
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