• leeboweffect
  
  

  • Rank: Mate
  • Registered: Apr 22, 2015
  • Last visit: May 21, 2023
  • Posts: 484

  Posted: Dec 21, 2019 - 10:36 AM

  At the Lake Waccamaw "Indian Summer" Regatta this year 5 Vipers showed up to form a class. It was very nice to see a group of boats (other than the perennial H16) class racing rather than pot luck mixed fleet handicap racing in an open class. This was my first time to actually see these boats. I was impressed with what I saw and became more interested when I learned that they are legal to class race 1up (no jib). In the past when a boat is legal to race 1-up it is actually specified in the Portsmouth tables with a separate entry "1-up", not so for the F16.
  
  
  
  Any one know why there isn't a separate entry? Also where does it specify that the F16 is legal to class race 1-up?
  
  I've been to formula16.net and found it to be of little help. When I clicked sign up it took me to my Facebook homepage???
  
  Next question is that of all the folks who make the F16 which manufacturer is considered the best. Anyone know of a buyers guide as to what to look for, years to avoid etc.?
  
  Thanks in advance.
  
  --
  Hobie 16 (3 formerly)
  MacGregor 25 (formerly)
  Chrysler Dagger 14 (formerly)
  NACRA 5.0 (currently)
  High Point, NC
  --

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• dssaak
  
  

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  • Registered: Nov 18, 2005
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  • Posts: 236

  Posted: Dec 21, 2019 - 05:17 PM

  I own my 2nd of an older version, Blade F16. I have nothing but good things to say. Love the performance, love the light weight. Love that I can sail main only, main/jib or main/jib/spinnaker 1 up depending on the breeze.
  
  --
  dk
  
  Blade F-16
  Hobie 14
  Corsair F-242
  Mirage 25 (Sold)
  Hobie Tiger (Sold)
  Hobie Tiger (Sold)
  TomCat 6.2 (Sold)
  --

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• ste4
  
  

  • Rank: Lubber
  • Registered: May 01, 2017
  • Last visit: Jul 06, 2020
  • Posts: 43

  Posted: Dec 23, 2019 - 09:01 AM

  Really enjoy my nacra f16

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• rattlenhum
  
  

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  • Registered: Aug 01, 2002
  • Last visit: Sep 14, 2024
  • Posts: 425

  Posted: Dec 25, 2019 - 09:33 AM

  No expert, but....
  
  The 1-up, 2-up legality is covered in the class rules
  https://www.sailing.org/t…19CR20190716-[25206].pdf
  
  From discussions here, it appears that the Portsmouth ratings are the same, provided the box rule is met for each scenario
  https://www.catsailor.com…php/forums/6/1/f16-forum
  As with all Portsmouth ratings, the need for rating corrections is tied to the class rules, so the devil may be in the details
  
  Interestingly, there are different SCHRS ratings for double/solo and different manufacturers:
  https://www.schrs.com/ratings.php
  
  --
  Jerome Vaughan
  Hobie 16
  Clinton, Mississippi
  --

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• samc99us
  
  

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  Posted: Dec 30, 2019 - 04:50 PM

  Portsmouth is no longer being updated and is no longer valid for mixed fleet catamaran racing in the U.S. That being said, comparing results of races in Portsmouth and SCHRS I tend to find they come out the same with one or two exceptions. I highly recommend moving to SCHRS however as it stays current with design trends.
  
  The problem with rating the F16's is they have changed the minimum boat weights and many boats are still grandfathered in at the old 104/109kg weights. Most of the boats-Nacra and Viper for sure, and the Falcons even weigh closer to the 125kg limit, but with the way the rules are written and some issues in Europe SCHRS decided to push handicaps on a make/model basis. Long story short, its a mess and if you need help resolving this I would be happy to discuss...
  
  In terms of solo vs. 2 up racing, I think it has been proven the 2 up variants are generally quicker. That is primarily due to the evolution of the sailplane to favor that, as well as the hassle of managing a spin boat at the marks. Regardless, they are still fun to sail and race solo and the local boats primarily race in that mode.
  
  Now to the boats. I would not own a Blade, as the hull volume is lacking and they are getting older, but they might be OKAY for primarily solo work. The Falcon has generally proven to be the most competitive on the race course but the Viper is right there and Nacra have also proven competitive with their newer boats. I would say that all the newer boats are more setup for doublehanded work but of the boats the Falcon is probably the best for Solo work. All are well boat with good rigging from the factory.

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• samc99us
  
  

  • Rank: Mate
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  • Posts: 574

  Posted: Dec 30, 2019 - 05:22 PM

  Also, FYI on the Nacra F16 side: https://www.nacrasailing.com/press-release-new-full-carbon-nacra-f16/
  
  I think used boats represent tremendous value in this space, as there are some Goodall's in great shape available!

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• leeboweffect
  
  

  • Rank: Mate
  • Registered: Apr 22, 2015
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  • Posts: 484

  Posted: Jan 02, 2020 - 07:10 PM

  samc99us

  Portsmouth is no longer being updated and is no longer valid for mixed fleet catamaran racing in the U.S.

  
  
  I'm a member of US Sailing and it is in fact still being updated albeit not with the frequency it should be and has been historically. Every Regatta I participated in this season and last was handicapped with the Portsmouth numbers.
  
  --
  Hobie 16 (3 formerly)
  MacGregor 25 (formerly)
  Chrysler Dagger 14 (formerly)
  NACRA 5.0 (currently)
  High Point, NC
  --

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• leeboweffect
  
  

  • Rank: Mate
  • Registered: Apr 22, 2015
  • Last visit: May 21, 2023
  • Posts: 484

  Posted: Jan 02, 2020 - 07:18 PM

  sam99us

  The problem with rating the F16's is they have changed the minimum boat weights and many boats are still grandfathered in at the old 104/109kg weights. Most of the boats-Nacra and Viper for sure, and the Falcons even weigh closer to the 125kg limit, but with the way the rules are written and some issues in Europe SCHRS decided to push handicaps on a make/model basis. Long story short, its a mess and if you need help resolving this I would be happy to discuss...
  
  In terms of solo vs. 2 up racing, I think it has been proven the 2 up variants are generally quicker. That is primarily due to the evolution of the sailplane to favor that, as well as the hassle of managing a spin boat at the marks. Regardless, they are still fun to sail and race solo and the local boats primarily race in that mode.

  
  
  Your comments are consistent with what I'm hearing about the class from others that the design variations and rules aren't tight enough to keep things fair. Maybe the boat isn't the 1up/2up dream I was hoping looking for.
  
  --
  Hobie 16 (3 formerly)
  MacGregor 25 (formerly)
  Chrysler Dagger 14 (formerly)
  NACRA 5.0 (currently)
  High Point, NC
  --

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• dssaak
  
  

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  • Posts: 236

  Posted: Jan 03, 2020 - 11:26 AM

  Quote

  I would not own a Blade, as the hull volume is lacking and they are getting older, but they might be OKAY for primarily solo work.

  
  
  I own a Blade and would definitely own another. If your interest is only competitive racing in the F16 class, then I would agree it is not the boat you want. Similarly, I would not buy a Tiger to race in the F18 class.
  
  If you are racing Open fleet or F16 class but not Gold Fleet material (like me), the Blade is a solid platform and can be found occasionally for a much better price than the current crop of F16 boats.
  
  
  
  Edited by dssaak on Jan 03, 2020 - 12:32 PM.
  
  --
  dk
  
  Blade F-16
  Hobie 14
  Corsair F-242
  Mirage 25 (Sold)
  Hobie Tiger (Sold)
  Hobie Tiger (Sold)
  TomCat 6.2 (Sold)
  --

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• dssaak
  
  

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  Posted: Jan 03, 2020 - 11:35 AM

  Deleted
  
  
  
  Edited by dssaak on Jan 03, 2020 - 12:38 PM.

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• samc99us
  
  

  • Rank: Mate
  • Registered: Apr 15, 2005
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  • Posts: 574

  Posted: Jan 08, 2020 - 10:41 AM

  Just to clarify on the Portsmouth situation: US Sailing is NOT maintaining the multihull portsmouth. They are updating the monohull table, but have officially/non-officially endorsed using SCHRS. I was in the meeting when this happened. If you've heard differently please send me a PM so we can get things straightened out.
  
  Yes, the change in class rules has sort of left the U.S F16 fleet in no mans land, coupled with the Nacra 15 and Nacra 17 sailors stealing the youth. For solo work, it is really hard to pick a boat other than the A-Cat with 40+ at many regional events and 20+ at pretty much every one.
  
  
  
  Edited by samc99us on Jan 09, 2020 - 07:28 AM.

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• jack108136
  
  

  • Rank: Mate
  • Registered: Jul 19, 2012
  • Posts: 156

  Posted: Jan 09, 2020 - 01:59 PM

  Ya'll are invited down for the Charlotte Harbor Regatta. We have a class for F16's.
  
  http://www.charlotteharborregatta.com

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• mookie
  
  

  • Rank: Lubber
  • Registered: Apr 20, 2015
  • Last visit: Apr 28, 2021
  • Posts: 31

  Posted: Jan 20, 2020 - 05:02 PM

  I agree with SamC on the Falcon vs Viper. For 1 up vs 2 up, the edge generally goes to lighter 2 up teams. The boat is quick and perfectly manageable 1 up, but in competitive racing a 1 up boat is sometimes slower at the corners due to sail handling, although I've been told a 1 up boat won NAs a few years ago. So, to summarize, in the words of Luftwaffe Ace Adolf Galland, "It's not so much the crate, as the man in it".
  
  --
  Falcon F-16
  Taipan 4.9
  S2 7.9
  --

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