Hi all,
I am thinking it would be handy to have a pair of posts on the trailer that would be right in front of the front crossbar, slightly higher, and almost at the hulls. Purpose is two fold. Anchor points when trailering, maybe with Destaco over center clamps. The other to be anchor points colinear with mast base ball to have a solid support to mast, and also anchor a vee style gin pole. Its sort of like the Hobie Mast stepper 3. I want to eliminate use of trap lines and hull straps. Mast support is 8 foot aluminum tube from trailer post to clamp on mast. Rod end at base. Gin pole is two 6 foot poles at tkp of each trailer lost. Winxh connects at their center as does forestay.
I can CAD this up for a visual.
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John
Nacra 5.0
CT
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Trailer mounted gin pole
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Posted: Mar 18, 2020 - 11:37 PM
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Posted: Mar 20, 2020 - 11:29 AM
Stiletto did this on their 27' cat trailers.
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'82 Super Cat 15
Hull #315
Virginia
Previously owned: '70 H14, '79 H16, '68 Sailmaster 26, '85 H14T
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Posted: Mar 20, 2020 - 02:13 PM
I'm all for making things easier and doing them solo. You did not say if this was for the Tornado or the Nacra. For the 5.0 you can easily do it solo if you turn the boat around so it's facing backwards on the trailer.
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Bill Townsend
G-Cat 5.0
Sarasota
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Posted: Mar 20, 2020 - 03:03 PM
It's probably easy but turning the boat around is additional time and effort. If you have to do it often, everything counts -
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Posted: Mar 20, 2020 - 05:21 PM
please do -
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Posted: Mar 20, 2020 - 10:56 PM
I will check out the Stilletto system.
Its for the Nacra. I can raise it, but like the security of a gin pole set up. If i take care of my back now, i can keep sailing until i am 80!
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John
Nacra 5.0
CT
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Posted: Mar 21, 2020 - 02:43 PM
I once saw a guy that had to be in his late seventies solo raise a mast on a Hobie 18. The mast support on his trailer had an extension on the side that allowed him to extend the height with a line going thru a block on the top of this extension then back to the mast where it was tied off just above the spreaders. With the mast lying across the back of the boat he was able to get a good enough angle because of the raised mast support. Now here comes the good part. He got up on the tramp and used a remote control to start the little electric winch and because he was on the tramp while the mast was going up, he was able to use his free hand to keep the mast from going to the side during the raising process.
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Bill Townsend
G-Cat 5.0
Sarasota
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Posted: Mar 21, 2020 - 05:36 PM
The mast support extension can be skipped in my opinion, I'd first try to move the winch further up, or add a block at the top of the mast support. I recently changed the strap of my winch with a rope and it works way better. No need for a wire, just a decent line. The winch will not work by it's own on the first degrees but you can pull from the diamond wire up to a certain height where it does. This is how I step my mast, except that someone is helping from the winch, I don't have an electric one. But I start with the mast horizontal and the winch line nearly horizontal too, not effective by it's own at the begining, but no big deal.
But with this method and the one suggested by ctcatman you still need someone or something to support the top of the mast to be able to connect and pin the mast base to the ball. Otherwise it's a nightmare. Even if you acheive it, the mast rests on the diamond wire in a very forced position.
Today I only step the mast solo if I find a heigh enough support. Where I normally do it there is a sort of soccer goal that works perfectly. I wouldn't turn the boat around, that whould be too much, I'd rather wait and find a helper. The hardest part is extending your arms, after that you just walk forward. As I'm not getting any younger, last time was a bit scary and a little trick did help: before extending my arms I supported the mast with my head, found my center and proceeded :) So yes, it's a sort of limit situation, not really easy. Mine is a N5.5, with my previous N5.0 it was a bit easier, but having a system is a good idea, if id doesn't add too much time. -
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Posted: Mar 22, 2020 - 01:32 PM
I use a telescoping mast support. I find it works well. I use the trap wires to stop the dreaded sway. I connect the head stay via the chain plates on the bows. I find two connections at waist level easier than trying to connect a cable in the air.
I crank up the mast with the recovery winch. I couldn't feel if anything was binding if I used an electric winch.
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'82 Super Cat 15
Hull #315
Virginia
Previously owned: '70 H14, '79 H16, '68 Sailmaster 26, '85 H14T
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Posted: Mar 22, 2020 - 02:56 PM
This allows me to solo raise my mast on my 21. Very, very stable and always set up. One trick is to leave the trap lines connected so its ready to raise next time. It also lines up perfect every single time so you don't have to realign, etc. Welded square galvanized tube, painted.
. https://www.thebeachcats.com/pictures?g2_itemId=132629
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Chuck C
NACRA 500 Mk2
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Posted: Mar 22, 2020 - 02:59 PM
Oh, and I changed the winch to one with an automatic brake. Way, way safer. I need to adjust the location of the upright right now. I didn't check before first use and ended up too close to bridle wires. This makes all the difference in the world for me.
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Chuck C
NACRA 500 Mk2
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Posted: Mar 23, 2020 - 08:54 PM
I uploaded the CAD images to a folder called 'Nacra Trailer'.
Edited by ctcataman on Mar 23, 2020 - 09:58 PM.
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John
Nacra 5.0
CT
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Posted: Mar 24, 2020 - 08:58 AM
Where are the images, again?
If I build another Gin-pole bracket/multi-use thing, I'd:
1) Add a ladder of sorts to make it easier to get on tramp while trailered.
2) Add a few (4?) u-bolts to aid in tying down miscellaneous stuff. I don't need it now, but I can see how, on a long trip I'd load the trailer more with a pop-up tent, etc.
3) Use an automotive, single stage polyurethane instead of the "implement enamel" from Tractor Supply. The enamel actually sprayed and leveled very nicely and easily. Very nice gloss when using the hardener (which is a must), but the paint is still "soft" compared to a nice poly. But, you have to use a respirator, etc., sonot for everyone.
Since I'm officially locked down - except for work (do safety work for UT hospitals, which is NUTS now), I'll go through my rig, finish the set up, take pics and a video. Might help others with ideas, as I'm new at this and dreaming the stuff up with what I see on-line, etc. I'm SURE I'm doing something wrong, but I do know a little bit about rigging safety, but ironically not much about setting up sailboat rigs. I like to rely on mechanical advantage, safety features, etc. that keep others and myself out of the line of fire.
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Chuck C
NACRA 500 Mk2
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Posted: Mar 24, 2020 - 09:20 AM
https://www.thebeachcats.…64abad0414a1a550460dcb90
I like the gin pole setup. I would not recommend the fuss of the "pink" mast sway support. There is safety of raising vs. speed to assemble to consider. The crew's trap wire and a quick adjusting strap should be completely sufficient to take the "mast" braces place.
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FYC, Nacra 5.2 "Chris's Flyer" & Nacra Playcat & Farrier Tramp
Previously owned: Trac 14, H14, H16, H18, N5.0, G-cat 5.0
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Posted: Mar 24, 2020 - 09:46 AM
Possibly the group and help with my Hobie 17 gin pole construction/setup. I'm an Fboat sailor so well versed in the gin pole concept having built a system for my F18HT and its 36' mast here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4cLtC26aRM&list=PLSVBzactXNXskhZqTMJ4Eik4eZ-EGAr5J&index=40&t=0s
Also, for the group, Ian Farrier originally went without a gin pole by placing a pole across the folded/upright beams so some people may wish to research that but my question is:
For my Hobie 17, the mast is placed and raised sideways so whatever halyard you use the mast wants to twist/torque which binds the mast at the bottom and prevents movement/raising. Anyone have any thoughts on how to overcome this? I thought about using 2 halyards, one on the normal exit side and one wrapped around the mast in the opposite direction but have yet to try this.
Thanks all as I'm hoping to prolong my H17 sailing before I move to/find a weta.
Post back surgery James the slow - :)
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Posted: Mar 24, 2020 - 12:08 PM
From my experience/point of view, only with my limited experience:
The A-frame instead of a Gin "pole" is perfect: I started out with a pole, adapted a hinge on it and now have to have stabilizing lines on either side: too complicated, but not the end of the world: the lines stay attached.
You won't need the mast stabilizer, per the comment above. I also use trap wires to stabilize the mast, instead of a person, or whatever. The way to make it work, is to be sure whatever short section of rope/wire you use to hook them on to IS adjustable (to attach, tighten then remove) and more importantly attached at the same hinge point as the mast ball. Get that right and it really goes up slick and without effort/strain.
The ladder or a second person seems necessary, at least for me since the the mast won't truly lock into the ball and you need support out there.
I would not put the pulley on the storage box - For me it wasn't necessary. Just mount the winch/upright at the same distance as the mast tangs or further forward on the trailer. The bridle wires make a Vee going backward, so you have clearance. Plus, it allows you to put tension on the rig to set everything.
Another HUGE comfort, for me at least was changing the winch to one that has an automatic brake. You can stop at any point, walk away from the winch, adjust something then come back and continue without dropping the mast. Not what I intended, just a bonus. I originally was afraid that, after a hard day, wet hands might slip off the handle and drop the mast. The only pet peeve is that you cannot freewheel the strap out. However the winch is rated for and sort of designed for this.
jlooby - I'm not sure about the 17, but on mine, I attach to the forestay to raise the mast, not the halyard. I wouldn't want to put that kind of potential pressure on a comp tip, at least with a trailer mount rig.
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Chuck C
NACRA 500 Mk2
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Posted: Mar 24, 2020 - 12:21 PM
Thanks Chuck, I have my spin halyard which has the same fitting as my forestay but using either the forestay or spin halyard pulls or rotates the front of mast forward (back to 0 degrees) so this doesn't work on the H17 where the mast is turned 90 degrees outward to raise... I'm still stuck :)
