Wondering how long it takes to go from trailer to sailing for you guys? Some of the local Fleet 448 guys nearby are pretty quick. I have to contend with diamond wires on the Nacra. I am trying to optimize my systems preseason and want a realistic target. My first year was slow, esp solo.
Edited by ctcataman on Apr 07, 2020 - 03:57 PM.
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John
Nacra 5.0
CT
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How long does it take to set up a cat?
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Posted: Apr 07, 2020 - 02:20 PM
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Posted: Apr 07, 2020 - 02:57 PM
i rig solo (usually have help stepping but that is all)
am 45-50 min from stepping out my car and pushing into the water sans spin (if not distracted by people)
that is:
unsecure shrouds and mast tiedowns
step mast
push off trailer, raise jib
add rudders, crossbar
raise main
get wet
add 20-30 min to rig a spin
jib and main blocks live on boat and have a hook to attach to boom
spin (when on the boat) often lives in the snuffer bag to speed rigging
Sidenote: my friend who has a g-cat 5.7 is about 30 min rig or tear down
Edited by MN3 on Apr 07, 2020 - 03:04 PM. -
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Posted: Apr 07, 2020 - 03:05 PM
For me, there are 2 types of setups (Note: H17 setup with jib/super jib, spin/code 0 and either boomless or boom)
1. 1st time of year requires everything to be put on (shrouds, rudders, jib, spin, main, sheets, etc.) and of course, step the mast. I pick a real nice day and take my time and I would guess ~ 1 1/2 hours but that also includes time for snacks, a swim, tennis ball water toss with dog, etc.
2. With mid-season setup, everything is left attached (shrouds are left attached, looped and tied in place for trailering, rudders and tiller remain on boat secured for trailering, jib is left furled around forestay and I go with a furled code 0 rather than spin as the separate code 0 pole is put on and tied down in ~3 minutes in contrast to rigging the spin). With this setup, it is simply:
a. raise the mast and attach forestay with jib already up
b. run jib sheets
c. raise the code 0 and run code 0 sheets
d. raise the main and attach blocks
I never timed myself but this can be done in under 20 minutes solo
James H17+/F25C+ -
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Posted: Apr 07, 2020 - 06:55 PM
Interesting question.
45 minutes to 1 hrs, working alone and starting from the trailer with the mast down. (N5.5, no spi)
I'd like to say 30 mins but it takes more.
A couple improvements I added recently, because I have to step the mast more often:
- I replaced the rear cradles with rollers, it slides much easier in and out the trailer.
- To manage the standing rigging I have a couple tubes (a piece of hose, 10mm diam or so with a cut along) to wrap the wires at each side and I tie these tubes at the mast support. That helps a lot, without it it takes several minutes to arrange the wires before stepping the mast.
Before that I added fast shackles at several places, I think the only split rings I have are at the shrounds, stay and rudder pins (had something else there that eventually failed so went back to split rings).
Edited by Andinista on Apr 07, 2020 - 06:57 PM. -
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Posted: Apr 07, 2020 - 09:48 PM
I rig my Tiger, jib left of the furler, main and spinnaker, solo in just under an hour.
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dk
Blade F-16
Hobie 14
Corsair F-242
Mirage 25 (Sold)
Hobie Tiger (Sold)
Hobie Tiger (Sold)
TomCat 6.2 (Sold)
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Posted: Apr 07, 2020 - 11:30 PM
Hobie 21, I'm at hour and 15-1.5... Intolerable. I found using old Cordura satchels with 2 zippers pockets and the typical buckles (from conventions) work fantastic to manage cabling and buckle around mast.
Next is getting the mast manipulation finished. A V-block for the front beam and one for a ladder should reduce set-up time to under ab hour. I'm too timid to trailer with rudders on. If I did do it, I think I could bring it down to 30 minutes with expert crew on a good day. I'm really at accepting 1 hour from now on, making it as easy as possible and not missing anything before saving any more time. I'm new, though...
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Chuck C
NACRA 500 Mk2
Hobie 21se (sold)
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Posted: Apr 08, 2020 - 03:49 AM
9
That is a great idea.
I use ball bungee cords to hold stays to mast during trailering.
A tall ladder is used too. I have a two foot wide board on top with some corrugate drain pipe cut lengthwise attached. It allows mast to slide and not tip the ladder.
The Nacra hinge pins are such a PITA i leave them on. I want to add something super high visibilty to them at tips to avoid getting them tapped by tail gaters at lights.
I under slung my axle to keep boat low.
At one lake, Bantam in CT, i can launch but vetting to boat to the staging dock jn a head wind, to park the car is another mystery.
I am probably at one hour. The DIY Mast stepper 3 i use is a kludge, but it works.
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John
Nacra 5.0
CT
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Posted: Apr 08, 2020 - 07:46 AM
This is genius!!!!
The wire management is my biggest nemesis. Is this rubber tube? Is it split? Where along mast do you put it?
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John
Nacra 5.0
CT
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Posted: Apr 08, 2020 - 07:52 AM
My Hobie 21SE is still resting in its' winterized state. It would take me most of a day to have it ready to trailer to our sailing club (Lake Monroe Sailing Association, Bloomington Indiana). And another day to built it as it is completely disassembled.
Once I put it together , raise the mast , setup my roll furling Genoa and cover it with a snorkel ....I need about 45 minutes to hoist the top down furling spinnaker , remove the Genoa snorkel , pull the trailer down to the launch area , pack the cooler ,slide it off the trailer and it on to some cradles, park my tow vehicle and raise the main sail. All of this is done without help so not to be distracted or hurried and in the early hours of the day... This is when I take a solo shake down cruise and wait for crew to arrive...........Patience is my preferred attitude.....and being retired allows me the time to enjoy life without the interruption of waiting on help or crew. This big heavy cat is always a trailer launch and retrieve boat.
I purchasing this boat new in '89 at a boat show. My buddies would flock down to the Paynetown State Park to help build , set up and sail with me. It was a group effort back than. I never thought I could set it up without help...than one New Years Eve I revisited that assumption and figured out with patience and a place to leaving the boat mostly set up at a club, I could solo sail this big and stable boat. Never look back.....move forward.
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Bill 404 21SE
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Posted: Apr 08, 2020 - 11:46 AM
So, this is what I "discovered" as a start to a custom solution to the wires. Keep in mind I absolutely HATE bungee cords with hooks, but use them if I have to. https://www.thebeachcats.…ictures?g2_itemId=132794
It's messy looking in the picture because I had to rinse and dry off the shrouds, etc. However, I found that I can get my entire forestay, with roller furler etc. into the big zippered pocket of a bag and the jib halyard into the other zippered pocket, then just clip it around the mast. I don't like that these are closed, not breathable fabrics, so I made one meshed, zippered pocket that you can rinse through and then let dry without removing the shrouds. The difference is about 15-20 minutes versus stringing the cables through the wings and bungee cording them. Also much neater (though you wouldn't know it from the picture).
WIre management seems to be one of the biggest time-eaters for me now...
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Chuck C
NACRA 500 Mk2
Hobie 21se (sold)
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Posted: Apr 08, 2020 - 12:17 PM
If I am trailering with rudders, which is a no no, I can do my Hobie 16 and my Gcat 5.7 both in under 30. Mast up, sails up and go. I have spent 6 hours rigging\assembling a Supercat 20 and I wish to never do it again. I have mast up storage for my 16 and if I have the roller furling setup I am probably out of the car and on the water in 10, it is awesome -
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Posted: Apr 08, 2020 - 07:21 PM
I just coil my shrouds, forestay & trap wires and then bungee tie them to the hiking straps. I keep the trap wires in a different coil than the shrouds so it is easier to separate everything.
On the Blade, I pull the rudders off while trailering. I don't know maybe because they are so light, it is two pins and two clips. They may add another 5 mins at the most.
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dk
Blade F-16
Hobie 14
Corsair F-242
Mirage 25 (Sold)
Hobie Tiger (Sold)
Hobie Tiger (Sold)
TomCat 6.2 (Sold)
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Posted: Apr 08, 2020 - 07:46 PM
This kind, just because I had some. I don't remember the diameter, I said 10mm but maybe it's less. I made a straight cut along to put the wires inside. It is rigid enough so that the wires stay there and it produces a good curve. I install it before lowering the mast just above the shroud adjuster, then when the mast is in position on the trailer I slide it towards the mast support where I tie it. It doesn't touch the support but gets very close. For a long trip I would secure a bit more to make sure that the wires don't come out of the tube. The forestay is easy to roll and put on the tramp pocket, no need to put it with the rest.
For short distance each tube is tied with a clove hitch knot, with the same line going through an eyebolt at the mast support.
Edited by Andinista on Apr 08, 2020 - 07:47 PM. -
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Posted: Apr 08, 2020 - 08:15 PM
How long are the tubes?
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John
Nacra 5.0
CT
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Posted: Apr 08, 2020 - 08:28 PM
About 30 cm -
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Posted: Apr 09, 2020 - 03:53 AM
Thanks, can't wait to try fhis out.
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John
Nacra 5.0
CT
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Posted: Apr 09, 2020 - 09:17 AM
[quote=Andinista]
I do see the value if you have a new / shinny mast that you want to protect from dings and scratches by isolating the wire ropes
but I don't understand how adding more hardware is a time saver -
after i lower the mast and push/roll it into it's final spot, and i am still on the tramp i simply make large loops with my side stay's (and trap wires) and use my jibcar outhaul line to tie them up. next time i sail i simply untie this line on each side and set my mast for pinning.
please explain how this is a time saver? -
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Posted: Apr 09, 2020 - 09:51 AM
Update, I was not accounting for taking the boat off the trailer in my previous estimate of ~20 minutes and accounting for this probably makes it ~30 min for entire midseason setup.
On a related note, I am getting slower as I used to quickly put the wings on to prevent shroud catches and pop the H17 mast up with muscle in a matter of minutes. I know I'm getting slower because in this lockdown I have now set the boat up and torn it down 3 times the past 2 weeks (I've been trying to optimize everything and set the boat up to accommodate different rapid configurations).
As a followup to a question I posed a few weeks ago about solo mast raising and gin poles and the fact the H17 is rotated 90 degrees for raising:
Yesterday I added an eye strap to the mast 6' up the mast to accommodate dyneema lines strung to forward crossbar (outboard) roughly at mast pivot point ala the Farrier system. (Note dyneema lines don't need to be real tight as the H17 mast is quite different from my 37' carbon F25C mast). I then used my main block (6:1) and after lifting the mast and walking it up to back of boat (still real light at this point) and then used the sheet/blocks to raise the mast the rest of the way. I was very surprised the dyneema lines by themselves prevented mast rotation (if raised with forestay, mast tries to rotate back to 0 degrees since forestay is rotated 90 degrees).
After seeing how well this worked I believe I can rig an extension to the forward mast support so that I can winch the mast up entirely. I have a spare section of windsurf mast but I may go with a galvanized trailer section pipe and I figured trailer U-bolts and through bolts to hold it to mast support and a pulley at the top.
I know I'm probably recreating one of the Hobie Mast Stepper configurations but right now its been done with 1 eye strap, 2 rivets + watertight housing and some extra dyneema I had lying around.
James H17+/F25C+ -
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Posted: Apr 09, 2020 - 10:02 AM
It has nothing to do with protecting the mast, it is just about saving time in rolling, unrolling and untangling the wires, finding wich side is which, etc. In my experience this takes quite some time and is sort of messy, works against the perception of having everything under control :)
I forgot so say that I leave the shrouds attached to the hulls, that's the most influencial thing. Then I don't have to roll anything (except the forestay but just one wire doesn't hurt), the wire package at each side (shroud and trap wires) is folded in two and tensioned by this tube near mast support. Perhaps not for a 500 miles trip, but its the best I've found for the 5 blocks I have to drive the beach. -
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Posted: Apr 09, 2020 - 10:06 AM
I should probably add about trailering with rudders attached.
When I was younger I chased technology for the fastest boat (Bimare F18HT in my recent past) but I now pursue robust ease of use. With this, that Hobie rudder system designed ~50+ years ago while heavy, is a thing of beauty. Midseason trailering, I tie the crossbeam down with line led down through and underneath tramp to forward beam. This locks the crossbar down and forward and I did this for my previous H16, H18 & H18SX without a single problem the past ~40 years. Can this fail... absolutely but I have 3 sets of rudders (and even a fully complete backup H17) so I can take the risk.
James H17+/F25C+
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