What do you think?
Edited by Andinista on Nov 02, 2020 - 11:32 AM.
lateral support for stepping the mast
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Posted: Nov 02, 2020 - 11:26 AM
I want to make temporary shrouds with the trap wires to stabilize the mast laterally while rasing it solo. They should be attached at the beam corners but because the beam surface is below the mast ball, the required length of the wire increases as the mast goes up. To minimize that I thought of the following, anybody tried this, or something different that worked? the idea is to fix a line in front or underneath the beam and attach the other end to the trap wire. As the mast goes up the line would "unroll" of the beam and provide extra length, compared to something attached on top of the beam. It is very sensitive to the height of the ball above the beam, but in my case I calculated 2 cm variation or less, whith is not too bad, it can be left 1 or 2 cm loose and maybe it will work decently enough. I already have an eyestrap underneath the beam, very close to the hull´s inner side. The boat is a N5.5
What do you think?
Edited by Andinista on Nov 02, 2020 - 11:32 AM. -
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Posted: Nov 02, 2020 - 11:36 AM
looks good but my gut feeling is that the forces on the eyestraps may sheer off the rivets (and possibly deform the beam a bit) if anything goes wrong
the hobie ezystep uses straps - that seems a lot more secure
however they are fixed in place so they wont be tight until the mast is up a certain amount if i recall
https://media.hobie.com/i…_attachments/3151z52.pdf
Img on page 3-4 -
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Posted: Nov 02, 2020 - 12:01 PM
I ratchet strap the eyes of the trap wires to the front crossbeam of the trailer. This has worked fine so far.
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'82 Super Cat 15
Hull #315
Virginia
Previously owned: '70 H14, '79 H16, '68 Sailmaster 26, '85 H14T
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Posted: Nov 02, 2020 - 12:13 PM
Having the same problem with mine - I went WAY overboard and have a permanent gin pole that's lined up perfectly/axially, every time - but it's a part of the trailer. My cross-bar is curved, making the situation even worse - it REALLY tightens up as the mast goes up (unless lined up). Before, I'd use a couple of small lengths of line and a trucker's hitch knot to adjust as the mast went up - but that was kind of sketchy. Then, I built the frame, with some eye-bolts to tie the trap wires off to and it's like magic now. I learned to still leave a little slop in it, so the mast doesn't go up PERFECTLY straight, but I also don't risk over-tightening and blowing a line or other hardware out = bad day.
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Chuck C
NACRA 500 Mk2
Hobie 21se (sold)
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Posted: Nov 02, 2020 - 12:30 PM
Let's see if this comes through:
meh - the link works... Anywho - What worked for me was getting those stainless eyebolts at the right height and to set them back directly over the cross bar. I had previously mounted 2 vee blocks on that bracket as a stop and it lines up the boat perfectly every time. So, then to support the gin pole, I added a couple of swaged wires; line would have worked as well. Left just a tad of slop in that also and it helps, actually (not too much - like a 1/4" each side). I watched mine real closely because I'm winching my mast up and it can get overloaded REAL quick. There's a video out on u-tooob (not me) showing the results of this operation going partly bad because of this geometry problem.
Never could work out how to keep the link soft from the trap wires directly to the beams without all the slop.
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Chuck C
NACRA 500 Mk2
Hobie 21se (sold)
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Posted: Nov 02, 2020 - 12:35 PM
Interesting! I think the same effect is acheieved because it actually rolls around 90° of the front beam when the mast is horizontal. -
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Posted: Nov 02, 2020 - 01:02 PM
On my 5.2 I have a 1/4" line tied at the corners of the tramp with a carabiner. My gin pole sway lines and mast trap sway connect to it. As the mast goes up it slides on the beam. Keep it loose enough to match the ball height. With my adjustable trap I can also tension the rig from this point.
https://www.thebeachcats.…ictures?g2_itemId=134033
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FYC, Nacra 5.2 "Chris's Flyer" & Nacra Playcat & Farrier Tramp
Previously owned: Trac 14, H14, H16, H18, N5.0, G-cat 5.0
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Posted: Nov 02, 2020 - 04:03 PM
My mast starts off elevated from the tramp by about 15* due to the rear mast support. I tension the trap wires just enough and they stay that way all the way up. My shrouds are rigged with Hyfield levers so they are loose all the way up. But not too loose.
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'82 Super Cat 15
Hull #315
Virginia
Previously owned: '70 H14, '79 H16, '68 Sailmaster 26, '85 H14T
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Posted: Nov 02, 2020 - 06:26 PM
I moved my gin pole off the mast and onto the trailer. That, for me, makes the whole process twice as easy right from the start. I use a nylon strap with eyes on both ends lopped around the beam where the bitter end is in front of the beam. As such, the trap wires tighten as they go down and loosen as they go up. Effectively, it is "rolling" off the beam. I use 1/4" line between the nylon strap eye and the trap thimble. If you measure and mark them, the process is quite repeatable. I use the same process on three of my cats.
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dk
Blade F-16
Hobie 14
Corsair F-242
Mirage 25 (Sold)
Hobie Tiger (Sold)
Hobie Tiger (Sold)
TomCat 6.2 (Sold)
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Posted: Nov 02, 2020 - 07:32 PM
I intend to add the lateral wires but not a gin pole, to keep it as simple as possible. I already made a rear tripod to support the mast and be able to start the process solo. In the past I’ve used the jib sheet attached to a trap wire and the trailer, to cleat the front support once the mast is up. Now my intention is to have the jib sheet handy to be able to cleat the front wire half way up and be able to rest or make an easier switch from pulling the mast up to pushing it up and forward, which is the most critical part for me. Once passed that point the lateral support is not as necessary. I count on being able to hold the mast with one hand and pull the sheet slack with the other, I don’t intend to raise the mast with the sheet, but just hold it in position on that critical point. To be able to do all that, the lateral stability is needed to be able to pull the sheet, otherwise both hands are needed to hold the mast. -
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Posted: Nov 02, 2020 - 07:43 PM
Or maybe with the lateral stability it’s just easier to step the mast and I can remove the sheet slack afterwards, either way I’ll be happy. The last time I stepped the mast solo it felt a bit on the edge, but I think I just need a marginal improvement to be on the safe side. -
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Posted: Nov 02, 2020 - 07:51 PM
In my younger days with the H14, I did the one hand hold, one hand cleat thing. I probably could still do it today. However, on the Tiger and Blade, I would never take the chance. That is not a light mast on the 5.5 either.
With the "advantage" pole moved to the trailer and a winch on the mast post, its an easy one person job with no apprehension of getting the forestay pinned without the mast falling down.
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dk
Blade F-16
Hobie 14
Corsair F-242
Mirage 25 (Sold)
Hobie Tiger (Sold)
Hobie Tiger (Sold)
TomCat 6.2 (Sold)
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Posted: Nov 03, 2020 - 10:59 AM
I saw a guy solo stepping a mast on a H18. He had the boat on the trailer backwards and two mast yokes, one attached to the original but to the side and much taller. By standing on the tailgate of his truck he could lift the mast and set it in the higher yoke. When he went to the tramp to walk the mast up it was at shoulder height (he had to squat slightly to get under it) thus avoiding the hardest part of the lift. I saw another guy once again with a H18 do it much easier. The boat was frontwards this time and the mast yoke was extended quite a bit to give the proper geometry. He raised the mast with an electric winch using a remote control. The good part is he was standing on the tramp the whole time, one hand for the remote and the other on the mast so it would go up straight and not veer off to the side. This way could be a little problematic with a Nacra in that the mast has to be turned 90 degrees. Perhaps a long loop in the raising line just above the spreaders that would be slipped off when done.
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Bill Townsend
G-Cat 5.0
Sarasota
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Posted: Nov 03, 2020 - 11:18 AM
I have always wanted to make a mast support on the rear beam that would have a slot for the diamond wire. Then again I don't think it would work either.
I have seen an electric winch before on a Nacra 6.0?... Definitely the fastest way to get it up...without medication
. Very little setup. Though, even with a full gin pole it still only takes me 45 min to rig solo.
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FYC, Nacra 5.2 "Chris's Flyer" & Nacra Playcat & Farrier Tramp
Previously owned: Trac 14, H14, H16, H18, N5.0, G-cat 5.0
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Posted: Nov 03, 2020 - 11:25 AM
we trailer backward to get some help with stepping
my custom trailer has an extendable yoke
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Posted: Nov 03, 2020 - 12:08 PM
Hyfield levers are great. I have put them on every cat I have owned since my SC 17. I could right my Hobie 18 solo without a bag or a Hawaiian sling after I installed the Hyfield levers.
Highly recommended if you have a catamaran that is difficult to right. -
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Posted: Nov 08, 2020 - 03:46 PM
It worked well, I used ratchet straps from the trailer cross bar to the trap wires and they definitely made the process easier. Started with no slack with the mast down and ended up about 1 to 2 inches loose after raising the mast. I used the jib sheet to tension a trap wire against the mast support near the winch. It was very useful to be able to cleat that line two or three times during the process. To drop the mast I attached the jib block at a corner of the front beam and passed a line attached to the the jib sheet pulley through a carabiner attached to the winch and to a trap wire used as fore stay. This configuration allowed to be able to cleat and uncleat the jib block as required, if installed directly in front it’s not so easy to uncleat. I’m happy again, can step the mast solo with reasonable effort and low risk.
Edited by Andinista on Nov 08, 2020 - 05:06 PM. -
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Posted: Nov 09, 2020 - 09:21 AM
awesome!
some pics of your set up would be appreciated - i don't exactly follow what you are doing -
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Posted: Nov 09, 2020 - 12:10 PM
I was too busy and concentrated to take pictures, sorry...
See the drawing on the first post, the red lines are trap wires extended with a line, to act as shrouds. I got the great suggestion to attach them to the trailer instead of the beam, so they would continue down but work the same way. The point is that the quarter of turn around the beam provides additional length as the mast goes up, to compensate for the mast ball being above the beam. They start tight, where most needed, and end up loose when less force is required.
The other part is to be able to cleat and uncleat a third trap wire used as forestry. For that I used the jib block attached at the mast support, for raising the mast. To bring it down I attached the jib block at the corner of the beam. As I write I realize that I could have left it in its normal position :) ... instead of pulling then jib clew it pulls the line to the trap wire, through a carabiner (or could be a pulley) attached at the mast support. The reason to put it there instead of in front is to get a better angle to cleat and uncleat the sheet.
So one hand to pull or push the mast, the other to cleat/uncleat the line line as the mast goes up or down. With the mast stabilized laterally everything felt safer and easier.
Edited by Andinista on Nov 09, 2020 - 12:15 PM. -
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Posted: Nov 09, 2020 - 01:35 PM
i get the geometry of the guy wires, i didn't understand the jib blocks on the beam.
when i think if jib blocks i think of the blocks on deck - not the turning block at the jib clew - that was the source of my misunderstanding i think
seems to me one handing the mast would be harder than both hands on the mast - and less safe - but if it works for you, and you feel safer -that is all that is really important.
I use my spin halyard tied to the furler ring (or a bow tang) to lock the mast upright so i can get down and tie it off, and reverse for lowering - pretty much the same thing you are doing with the jib sheet/clew
ENJOY
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