Bryan's Supercat 17 rebirth in Poplar Grove, Illinois

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waiex191

Rank: Mate

Registered: Oct 07, 2020

Last visit: Feb 29, 2024

Posts: 359
Posted: Jan 06, 2021 - 12:45 AM

Hey all,
I thought I would start a thread and document what I'm doing to my catamaran to bring it back to life. Plus I am sure there is a lot of good advice and maybe a little encouragement to be had. So here we go.

I pulled the sails out just to take a look.

Saw some scary corrosion on the beam hold down blocks. Curious what people think. I may sail it like that for a season before I get too deep.

I had mentioned that I wasn't going to mess with the boat until I finished my airplane, but right now the heat is out and I'm waiting for parts. So I took the sail home and pulled the battens out. They are tapered tubular battens. Some of them are cracked on the big end.

The batten pockets have been repaired before, by stitching heavy clear vinyl over the rips. But there are more rips.

Some of the plastic batten pocket ends (anybody have a better word?) are missing. Looks like a good part to 3D print.

The pocket for the boom is cracked. Looks like another good part to 3D print.

The boom itself seems to be cracked in half. There is a large dowel jammed in place. To be fair, it was also taped, with scotch tape. A lot of it. My kids and I were laughing as we thought about people sailing this in the atlantic with the sharks.

My immediate goal is to make the sail usable for a season. When I finish the airplane I'll make another. So I see the following steps:
1) Spend $30 for another aluminum tube for the boom.
2) Stitch patches where needed on the batten pockets. Goal is functionality, not beauty.
3) Design, 3D print and install batten pocket and boom end parts.
4) Wrap and fiberglass up the ends of the battens.

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Bryan in Poplar Grove, IL
Supercat 17, unknown year. Future project
Hobie 16, 1977 - died a spectacular death https://youtu.be/Y7O22bp2MVA
Hobie 16, 1978 - current boat
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shortyfox

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Registered: Apr 07, 2017

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Posts: 369
Posted: Jan 06, 2021 - 08:26 AM

The cast aluminum back up bars in the cross tubes don't look too bad in the pic. Spray with WD-40 and remove the cross tubes and bed them with silicone including the back up bars and thru bolts. If the back up bars are cracked, you can make your own by taking several short pieces of 1/16 or 1/8 pieces of aluminum, tighten the bolt with one, take the bolt out, add another and so on. Finish with a flat washer. You'll wind up with several pieces that conform exactly to the shape of the beam. The plastic parts for the battens are inexpensive through Murrays and a lot of time they fail simply because the little bolts that hold them together have corroded away and you can find them at any hardware store. Not sure about your battens. With regular tapered Hobie battens it's common to have little splits on the luff end. If the spilt is only a couple of inches a quick fix is to dip them in West System epoxy. $30 for an aluminum tube? Metal supply store or hardware store. Is it possible that the original part was a slightly thicker fiberglass batten?

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Bill Townsend
G-Cat 5.0
Sarasota
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MN3

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Registered: Jun 20, 2006

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Posts: 7090
Posted: Jan 06, 2021 - 09:45 AM

my 2cents:

sails looks shot to me (all those tiny tears indicate it is way past it's useful live (for me)
you may be able to sail it many more times but old ripped sails are often blown out as well, and using a blown out sail in med to heavy air is not a great thing - and one capsize away from a human sized tear in the sail - ymmv
PS when i started, i sailed my h16 many times with sails in that condition. i will (now) blame my crappy h16 sail for all the terrible sailing i did and all the time i spent in irons (probably not accurate)

the beam chock (or what ever that part is called) is a critical part and probably deserves a close inspection for cracks - failure at that location could be catastrophic.

Batten ends: I agree with Bill, i would order them from a supplier unless you WANT to play w/ your 3d printer. they are cheap

Boom - hmmmm - i thought sc17's were boomless? the sc's on our beach all are. i am gonna guess you mean the bottom batten? (usually much bigger and robust compared to the others)
IF SO - i would probably order a new batten from Aquarius vs making one with alum. battens are flexable to allow shape - a spar wont be the same even if it does flex some

Lastly - there are no sharks in the atlantic and especially no sharks in the gulf
they are a made up idea - to sell tickets to movies
charlescarlis

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Registered: Jun 30, 2018

Last visit: Dec 15, 2024

Posts: 598
Posted: Jan 06, 2021 - 06:11 PM

Yeah - no sharks in the Gulf... Around here, the kayakers had a sport of hooking good sized bull sharks and "riding them". That activity kind of ended, it seems. I know I've had 2 instances of "something" shark-shaped hitting my stringer of fish while I was wade fishing in the surf...with the stringer attached to my belt. THAT'S unnerving! And, I guess while I was surf fishing in LA (Lower Alabama), that 4 foot snappy thing that was all teethy hitting my lure on the surface that made me run back to shore fast, screaming like a little girl MIGHT have been some other kind of fish...

Yup, it's all fake news...

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Chuck C
NACRA 500 Mk2
Hobie 21se (sold)
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waiex191

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Posted: Jan 06, 2021 - 08:05 PM

Ha, funny. My buddies were flying helicopters offshore and saw a line of sharks nose to tail for as long as they could see - about a half mile from the beaches full of people. I never flew over the water, that is just too scary for me.

QuoteIf the back up bars are cracked, you can make your own by taking several short pieces of 1/16 or 1/8 pieces of aluminum, tighten the bolt with one, take the bolt out, add another and so on.

I'm thinking I'll either:
1) chuck up a big piece in the lathe and turn it down to the right diameter, then bandsaw/mill the flat in place
2) Get a flat bar and use the mill and a rotary table or something to cut the diameter
3) Buy new parts from Aquarius if they have them.

Quoteunless you WANT to play w/ your 3d printer.

I am all about playing with my 3D printer/ sewing machine, whatever.

Quote$30 for an aluminum tube? Metal supply store or hardware store. Is it possible that the original part was a slightly thicker fiberglass batten?

Metal supply store - actually Metal Supermarkets. They are a great supplier and if you call them it is about half the price as compared to online. Rod thinks the original batten was aluminum, and I'll see what they say over at the Aquarius forum.

Thanks all for the replies.

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Bryan in Poplar Grove, IL
Supercat 17, unknown year. Future project
Hobie 16, 1977 - died a spectacular death https://youtu.be/Y7O22bp2MVA
Hobie 16, 1978 - current boat
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MN3

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Registered: Jun 20, 2006

Last visit: Dec 04, 2024

Posts: 7090
Posted: Jan 06, 2021 - 08:35 PM

QuoteI've had 2 instances of "something" shark-shaped hitting my stringer of fish while I was wade fishing in the surf...with the stringer attached to my belt. THAT'S unnerving! And, I guess while I was surf fishing in LA (Lower Alabama), that 4 foot snappy thing that was all teethy hitting my lure on the surface that made me run back to shore fast, screaming like a little girl MIGHT have been some other kind of fish... icon_smile

Yup, it's all fake news...

Done with animitronic "fish" - ever been to Universal Studios? they have one of those there

Here is a video i made of a "fake" fish eyeing my buddy Zack's stringer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUiL143aTNs

best view around 2:35

Edited by MN3 on Jan 06, 2021 - 08:38 PM.
MN3

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Posted: Jan 06, 2021 - 08:53 PM

Quote Ha, funny. My buddies were flying helicopters offshore and saw a line of sharks nose to tail for as long as they could see - about a half mile from the beaches full of people. I never flew over the water, that is just too scary for me.

There are sharks in illinois??? who knew?

this is why i stay ON the boat
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZj1oD_iOkg

we have a spot that is called the "sharkiest spot in the world" between a few of our barrier islands

a few years ago i was in the area and my buddy (hanz) was a good 3 miles ahead of me. I had just tried a new sunscreen on my legs and didnt realize i got rubbed some on my trampoline. Did a quick tack and slipped off the tramp into the drink. Held on to the main with a kong-fu death grip. as it sailed away and auto sheeted in it started to capsize. I was close enough to grab the rudder and turn it into the wind and save the capsize. I got on the boat so fast it probably looked like i could walk on water. (i don't use the sunscreen any mo)

This stuff

Edited by MN3 on Jan 06, 2021 - 08:56 PM.
waiex191

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Registered: Oct 07, 2020

Last visit: Feb 29, 2024

Posts: 359
Posted: Jan 10, 2021 - 02:27 PM

I started working on repairing the batten pockets. I couldn't roll up the sail tight enough to get through the machine without removing the headboard.

My bobbin kept jamming, so I started taking off the plate to see what was going on. They use weird screws that are shaped like you are supposed to use a coin. Naturally I dropped a penny into the machine and now can't find it.

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Bryan in Poplar Grove, IL
Supercat 17, unknown year. Future project
Hobie 16, 1977 - died a spectacular death https://youtu.be/Y7O22bp2MVA
Hobie 16, 1978 - current boat
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charlescarlis

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Posts: 598
Posted: Jan 11, 2021 - 12:02 AM

I believe all my headboards are riveted in place, IIRC. Bummer about the penny-spent many an hour searching for a bolt dropped under the hood... Yup, rolling up a sail tight enough to fit and keep in it rolled up is a chore, especially repairing batten pockets in the middle of the main. That's why lofts shell out the big cash for the Adler high arm/long arm machines.

--
Chuck C
NACRA 500 Mk2
Hobie 21se (sold)
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MN3

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Registered: Jun 20, 2006

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Posted: Jan 11, 2021 - 08:42 AM

Quote That's why lofts shell out the big cash for the Adler high arm/long arm machines.

and have cavities in the floor where the user works. the sail is laid out flat on the deck
waiex191

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Registered: Oct 07, 2020

Last visit: Feb 29, 2024

Posts: 359
Posted: Jan 11, 2021 - 09:48 AM

I did find the penny. Just had to take the machine apart and put it back together. Got my first batten pocket fixed. I ripped both seams out far enough to baste a patch under the rip, then sewed it back together. The rest of the patches are closer to the top of the sail, so less material to jam under the arm of the machine.

I suspect I'll end up with a more suitable machine. I just need to ebay/craigslist off some stuff to cover the costs, so as to be fiscally responsible. Plus that makes for less junk collecting in the workspace. I won't end up with cavities in the floor, but likely I'll work on the hangar floor with some sort of sail support. Maybe a skateboard like Sailrite recommends. I have a couple laying around. Right now I just have a few tables next to my sewing machine table.

My headboard had hollow brass rivets, which were pretty corroded. Some of them were effectively gone. I'll likely use aluminum solid rivets, since I have them. I'll clean up and re-use those ugly headboards but when it is new sail time I'll make new ones. They appear to be 0.063 anodized aluminum.

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Bryan in Poplar Grove, IL
Supercat 17, unknown year. Future project
Hobie 16, 1977 - died a spectacular death https://youtu.be/Y7O22bp2MVA
Hobie 16, 1978 - current boat
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gahamby

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Posted: Jan 12, 2021 - 01:35 PM

https://owners.aquarius-sail.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=921

Edited by gahamby on Jan 12, 2021 - 01:37 PM.

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'82 Super Cat 15
Hull #315
Virginia
Previously owned: '70 H14, '79 H16, '68 Sailmaster 26, '85 H14T
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charlescarlis

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Registered: Jun 30, 2018

Last visit: Dec 15, 2024

Posts: 598
Posted: Jan 12, 2021 - 02:06 PM

Those are standard headboards; Sailrite has them in various sizes. I found that those cheaper, white plastic fold-out tables from wally world, etc. work pretty darned good; you can adjust a standard commercial sewing machine table height to 29 and 1/2 in., allowing for a flush fit to the tables. The tables are pretty slippery, and my main sail slid across them really, really easily. And that's a 33 foot luff, square top sail. I just need to pick up about 3 more of the tables to make my collapsable loft.

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Chuck C
NACRA 500 Mk2
Hobie 21se (sold)
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gahamby

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Registered: Feb 05, 2011

Last visit: Jun 15, 2021

Posts: 575
Posted: Jan 12, 2021 - 02:26 PM

The AL head board and SS clew plate on my old pin top main were both fastened with brass rivets. When I redid them,
I used like metals. I replaced the grommets on the batten pockets with SS ones. When I replaced the batten pocket ends I used SS hardware.
Aquarius probably has the Moon Blocks in stock as well as the super batten. Shipping will be steep on the batten.
When I needed to replace my tiller crossbar I bought some Sch 40 3/4 AL pipe from the local metal supplier. It was 21' but local pickup.
I have some used batten pocket ends you can have. Check your PM.

Edited by gahamby on Jan 12, 2021 - 03:27 PM.

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'82 Super Cat 15
Hull #315
Virginia
Previously owned: '70 H14, '79 H16, '68 Sailmaster 26, '85 H14T
--
waiex191

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Registered: Oct 07, 2020

Last visit: Feb 29, 2024

Posts: 359
Posted: Jan 16, 2021 - 12:19 AM

Should I need to replace my battens, I'll probably just drive to Aquarius when we are visiting the in-laws in Minnesota.

Here is a patch with basting tape on it. I am about to baste it to the ripped half of the pocket. I ripped the seams out of the pocket for the patch length plus some more to make it easy to place the patch.

After the patch was basted to the rip, I basted the pocket seams back together.

Here is my machine setup.

All the seams are a single zig zag, not a 4-point.

Here was the longest rip all sewn up. All my pockets are repaired.

I know somebody is going to tell me to just go and buy a new mainsail for $1700 or whatever. I still think this is good practice and I do want to make my own sail.

There is one more repair I have to do. The tape that hold the bolt rope down at the tack is torn on one side. I need to sew in a new piece of tape.

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Bryan in Poplar Grove, IL
Supercat 17, unknown year. Future project
Hobie 16, 1977 - died a spectacular death https://youtu.be/Y7O22bp2MVA
Hobie 16, 1978 - current boat
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waiex191

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Registered: Oct 07, 2020

Last visit: Feb 29, 2024

Posts: 359
Posted: Jan 17, 2021 - 10:07 AM

Yesterday I noticed a dent in the top of the starboard hull. I first noticed a dent in the extrusion that hold the tramp. Then I realized the top of the hull looks pushed down on the outboard side of the extrusion and the inboard side seems to have a crack. Curious what the board thinks of this - should I open it up and repair it? This picture is looking aft, behind the forward beam.

I'll be posting this over at the Aquarius forum also.

Edited by waiex191 on Jan 17, 2021 - 10:08 AM.

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Bryan in Poplar Grove, IL
Supercat 17, unknown year. Future project
Hobie 16, 1977 - died a spectacular death https://youtu.be/Y7O22bp2MVA
Hobie 16, 1978 - current boat
--
MN3

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Registered: Jun 20, 2006

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Posts: 7090
Posted: Jan 17, 2021 - 10:37 AM

Sorry i don't have enough experience with Supercats or repairs to make a judgement on that image
BUT...
any play or movement when you press on it or around it?
there is gonna be at least 1 person sitting on or near that spot - so maybe get someone to sit on it sans tramp

do you have access ports? if so put a gopro or camera on a stick and get it in there - shine a strong light on the outside to examine it from the inside

if you don't have a port - may be time for one to examine this
waiex191

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Posted: Jan 17, 2021 - 11:14 AM

I don't see a lot of movement but I can't sit on it right now. It's on the trailer and not well balanced so it will fit behind the airplane. I don't think there are access ports, but I've not done a comprehensive search for one either.

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Bryan in Poplar Grove, IL
Supercat 17, unknown year. Future project
Hobie 16, 1977 - died a spectacular death https://youtu.be/Y7O22bp2MVA
Hobie 16, 1978 - current boat
--
MN3

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Registered: Jun 20, 2006

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Posts: 7090
Posted: Jan 17, 2021 - 11:51 AM

Quote I don't think there are access ports, but I've not done a comprehensive search for one either.

they are typically on the top of the hull
in rare occasions they are not - but not typical

that kinda inline crack is not uncommon in some cats (prindles) as a result of "tin canning" (bows go down and under and create pressure that pushes out the hulls)
BUT from all my experiences SuperCats are much stronger (thicker) and that tin canning would be uncommon in that breed

I have seen a few SC's blow out the entire stern (rudders didn't kick after striking something underwater)
waiex191

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Posted: Jan 17, 2021 - 01:10 PM

I think this damage was from a tree falling on the cat during a Florida hurricane.

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Bryan in Poplar Grove, IL
Supercat 17, unknown year. Future project
Hobie 16, 1977 - died a spectacular death https://youtu.be/Y7O22bp2MVA
Hobie 16, 1978 - current boat
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