F16 or A Cat Weight Considerations
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- Rank: Lubber
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Posted: Jan 17, 2021 - 02:02 PM
When reading thread discussions regarding weight what weight ranges qualify as Light Weight, Medium Weight, Heavy Weight for 1 individual considering a F16 or A Cat ? -
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Posted: Jan 20, 2021 - 09:32 AM
will probably get a better response (and a ton of sarcasm and infighting) over at the Sail Anarchy forums.
This site in primarily (but not exclusively) used by legacy cat sailors and non racing (or at least casual racers) - over there there are lots more of current class racing and HUGE egos (with knowledge) -
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Posted: Jan 20, 2021 - 12:14 PM
Yeah, I browse but don't think I'll join anarchy. I can only think what they would say about me with my two foam boats and my free catamaran, and my plans to restore and sail it.
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Bryan in Poplar Grove, IL
Supercat 17, unknown year. Future project
Hobie 16, 1977 - died a spectacular death https://youtu.be/Y7O22bp2MVA
Hobie 16, 1978 - current boat
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Posted: Jan 20, 2021 - 07:08 PM
tough crowd over there for sure
some really enjoy demeaning others
Catsailor.com was similar at times, but a little softer, not always
poor wouter (the scapegoat of catsailor.com) -
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Posted: Jan 22, 2021 - 12:03 PM
Those are two different boats with two different considerations:
A-Cat: Classic or foiling? Both are similar, but basically lightweight is under 160lbs, medium between 160 and 200lbs, and heavy over 200lbs.
F16: Modern boats are designed to carry upwards of 300lbs with two crew on the boat, so for solo sailing you're generally OK at any weight, though can be under powered with the main only upwind if over 200lbs.
Basically, there are more questions than answers here...it might be easier if you tell us your weight, and what your intended sailing is. If you really want to get into racing, the A is the better boat at the moment with the number of F16 events in the U.S pretty down. That being said, there remain some exceptions, racing distance for example favors the F16. -
- Rank: Lubber
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Posted: Jan 24, 2021 - 02:27 PM
Ok. I'm at about 240lbs. I am working on getting weight down. Better weight for A boat would 210 or less. As for the F16, I googled F16 crew weights and found ideal maximum of 341lbs. To me this translates into two teenagers at 170 each( I do contemplate going 2up in future). For F18, ideal max weight 397lbs or two adults 200 lbs each. I will demo both A cat and F16 before final decision. I do plan on racing with CRAM. Thank you Sam MN3 and waiex191 for you feedback. If anymore opinion please feel free to post it. -
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Posted: Jan 24, 2021 - 08:55 PM
where do you live?
what is your sailing experience?
are you looking to race competitively? if not - no need to really worry that much about it
where can you demo those boats? -
- Rank: Mate
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Posted: Jan 25, 2021 - 08:38 AM
The big fleets within CRAM are H16 and F18. Lots of 1 up sailors sailing the H16 like myself. Good group. My advice would be to go where the competition is at.
Coming from a bigger cat I never wanted a H16, but the local fleet forced my hand and I'm glad they did.
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Nacra 6.0 NA
Ogden Dunes, IN
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Posted: Jan 25, 2021 - 10:54 AM
I agree with Kevin's assessment. If you play to race 2-up, go F18. Largest double handed catamaran fleet in the U.S outside the H16. -
- Rank: Lubber
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Posted: Jan 25, 2021 - 11:34 PM
@ MN3 I live in MI , I have a membership at the Huron Yacht Club in Caseville Mi which located at the tip of the Thumb. I've had my Nacra 5.5 uni for about 20 yrs. 2-3 yrs racing years ago, raced with CRAM last sept, and plan on racing for next year. I can demo the A Cat and a F18 with CRAM members. There are very few F16's with Cram to demo. Before Kevin219 suggested it , I thought trying out an F18 would be comparable to an F16. An F16 is easier to sail 1 up than F18. I am told an F18 is very difficult/impossible to sail 1 up. If i went F18 i would have to have crew ... not easy to find at times.
@Kevin219 I know the big fleets in CRAM are H16 and F18. I have signed up for crewing with either fleet to gain experience. As for sailing 1 up with H16(and buying one), I'd see it as a step down from my uni 5.5.
@samc99us I'm on board with what you said, but for times i cant find crew ... it has been said to me that F16 is easier to sail 1 up if you can't find crew. -
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Posted: Jan 26, 2021 - 10:06 AM
Awesome - i wasn't sure if you had any and that would certainly be a factor in owning a (relatively) complex boat or very sensitive one
Balderdash!!!!
i sail my mystere 5.5 and 6.0 with the jib furled in heavy air or when i just want to put around. My 5.5 is almost identical to the mystere f18 (granted this is a 20 year old f18 design)
you can't race an f18 sans jib (and expect to be competitive) but you can sail it sans jib. It's gonna make tacking harder but you sail a 5.5 sans jib - so you will probably already have a feel for tacking without a jib. And since most will have a self tacking jib ... there probably isn't much sheeting / adjusting needed.
I don't race (anymore/well) but i have sailed with 3 sails solo for over a decade (admittedly this requires me using my feet on the tiller at times while i deal with the spin halyard or tack) - and can be a PITA
you will get beat up off the wind without a jib compared to the f18 with one.
Edited by MN3 on Jan 26, 2021 - 10:29 AM. -
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Posted: Jan 26, 2021 - 07:56 PM
I've single-handed my F18 many times. Its fun up to 10kts. Amazing how the light weight improves boat feel and light wind performance. Things start to become a challenge after 11-12kts - the lack of weight and righting moment really hurts. And above 15kts - forget it. No way you can race an F18 single-handed as there are also minimum weights, etc.
As for your go-to boat within CRAM, right now its either H16 head-to-head or F16 on handicap racing if you want to do it single-handed. Things evolve, and the go-to fleets will change, but that's the current status.
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Jeff R
'88 H18 "Jolly Mon"
'10 C2 USA1193
NE IN / SE MI
cramsailing.com
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Posted: Jan 27, 2021 - 05:09 AM
Shameless plug, I’ve got a nice F16 for sale that would look good on you! http:// https://www.thebe…viper-sale-or-trade.html
I have Both boats, they are both fun.
Edited by lakewateree on Jan 27, 2021 - 05:15 AM.
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Mac
Midlands South Carolina
AHPC Viper USA 366
A Cat USA 366
Super Cat 17
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Posted: Jan 27, 2021 - 07:43 AM
lmaniak, I actually bought a Hobie 16 up in Caseville last year!
Despite my sound advice, of getting a H16, My next boat will be an A-Cat. Those things are friggin awesome.
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Nacra 6.0 NA
Ogden Dunes, IN
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Posted: Jan 27, 2021 - 10:02 AM
PM sent
here is a working link (looks like you were using safari and that doesn't produce working links)
https://www.thebeachcats.…viper-sale-or-trade.html
Edited by MN3 on Jan 27, 2021 - 10:07 AM. -
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Posted: Jan 27, 2021 - 12:15 PM
Thanks! If you sent me a PM it didn't come through
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Mac
Midlands South Carolina
AHPC Viper USA 366
A Cat USA 366
Super Cat 17
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Posted: Jan 27, 2021 - 01:08 PM
ok i will try again now -
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Posted: Jan 28, 2021 - 12:28 AM
@ lakewateree your boat looks great with trailer and all the extras, Ive got to test drive an A Cat or F16 or F18 before i consider buy anything. Gov. Whitmer in MI has us on isolation if we travel outside MI , must quarantine or isolate from work for 2 weeks upon returning. discourages traveling for sure
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@MN3 , Rehmbo and Kevin219 thanks for you feedback and advice on F18.
. look forward to meeting you kevin219 someday at CRAM regatta. Rehmbo (Jeff) take me out on your F18 after races at sometime.
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Posted: Jan 28, 2021 - 10:33 PM
The above comments regarding solo sailing on a F18 are accurate. The real hassle is when it comes time to pull her back up the ramp.
Lakewatertree’s F16 is an absolute steal with the new sails and trailer, you’re almost getting the boat for free! -
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Posted: Feb 04, 2021 - 08:02 PM
Can an F18 be raced 1 up, using main and spinnaker only ? Would be class legal acceptable?
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